# What is the best way to talk to the devs? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 17, 2021, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047 "2021-02-17T11:01:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/41 "2021-03-11T10:36:03Z")
Sure, but it’s the same old story with one side being an organized entity ( in this case a couple of businesses ) while the other side is, shall we say, less than disciplined? Put one hundred EVE players in a room and you’ll have a hundred different opinions on how to improve the game and make it new-player friendly. And because we’re disorganized, with many just happy to be playing, CCP can pick and choose what they’ll do next, regardless of what anyone ( if “everyone” really exists in a game like EVE ) says they should do. For gamers, everything is a priority but when you deal with budgets and earning margins, many of those priorities quickly become options to exploit. ---
**Author:** ![Mu\_ad\_Diib](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mu_ad_diib/32/515564_2.png) [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mu_ad_Diib)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/42 "2021-03-11T10:47:29Z")
Short guide to how to definitely make sure that someone will not be on your side … > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Lets do reality check. We pay for their salaries. Yeah, that should do it. . Put another way, You’re right, we do collectively pay their salary. However attempting to use this as a lever to get them to do what **you** want - _\< in a slightly hysterical tone of voice \> **I** pay **your** salary **you** must therefore listen to **me** and do **exactly** what **I** want right now_ - is _never_ going to end well. When people talk like this, people just get annoyed at the person making the statement because it sounds like (_and in truth is_) a bit condescending and obnoxious. Just because you pay a minuscule part of someones salary does **not** make them beholden to **you** and it _doesn’t_ mean they _have_ do attend to _your_ every whim, need or desire. _Simplified:_ It is nice to be important, but it’s much more important to be nice. If you want the Devs to do something, being polite and having a strong and persuasive argument is **always** going to work _better_ than telling them “_I pay your wages._” 🐁 ---
**Author:** ![Mu\_ad\_Diib](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mu_ad_diib/32/515564_2.png) [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mu_ad_Diib)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/43 "2021-03-11T10:49:08Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Or Imicus being so ugly. I do agree with you on that one though! 🐁 ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/44 "2021-03-11T12:07:36Z")
> [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](#): > > \< in a slightly hysterical tone of voice \> Not at all hysterical. Neutral tone. > [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](#): > > You’re right, we do collectively pay their salary. Neutrally said. > [@Mu\_ad\_Diib](#): > > having a strong and persuasive argument is **always** going to work _better_ than telling them “_I pay your wages._” We do not pay their wages. We pay for their salaries. And we dont pay for botched job. I dont know how they react or what they do with this fact, they have to fix Imicus and that should be their job, and they should do it right. They will get money for doing their job, its so simple. Customers pay for good job. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/45 "2021-03-11T12:30:52Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > They will get money for doing their job, its so simple. Customers pay for good job. Yea but I don’t think we as EVE players are considered _customers_ with all of what that word entails. We are _subscribers_, we pay for, or subscribe to, Omega Time. We are not paying for what’s _in_ the game but for access to the the game itself, regardless of what’s in the game. Customers can demand to speak to a representative, a manager or whatnot and get a refund or an item exchanged ( and even that isn’t guaranteed these days ) Can we as players demand that? Can we demand a refund? Well, you can try and good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/46 "2021-03-11T12:40:02Z")
The customers can just stop paying for subscription. And they do, without even demanding anything. > **[Most Brands Hear from Less Than 1% of Their Customers - Apptentive](https://www.apptentive.com/blog/2019/01/17/most-brands-hear-from-less-than-1-percent-customers/)** > > Many brands may think they build products based on customer feedback from a majority, but they couldn’t be further from the truth. In reality, our data shows that brands only hear from less than 1% of their customer base, which we call the “vocal... ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 12:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/47 "2021-03-11T12:51:37Z")
I am sure CCP didnt care about ustomers when they pulled the gambling into the game. This is poll that I made, voted by only forum users: > [@tipping\_hand\_woman 𝐇𝐲𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐍𝐞𝐭 (𝐏𝐨𝐥𝐥), 𝐩𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐞 𝐯𝐨𝐭𝐞](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/topic/203296): > > If you don’t know what HyperNet is: [Introducing the HyperNet Relay](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-hypernet-relay/203064) 𝐃𝐨 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐥𝐢𝐤𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐚 𝐨𝐟 𝐇𝐲𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐍𝐞𝐭? [poll](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/topic/203296/1) Thank you for voting. rose I made this, and I have not seen CCP gathering feedback in a form of a poll before they added the gambling. Or after. This is not how you should treat customers. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/48 "2021-03-11T12:53:10Z")
No surprise there, Nina. Depending on the product, most people don’t bother doing surveys sent to emails after purchase, most people can’t be bothered being contacted unless there are defects or some other issue. I cut my subscription to Omega last year for a number of months. I wasn’t particularly eager to let CCP know why, I thought _who cares_? I wasn’t disappointed with anything CCP had done either. Most customers want to buy and expect a product to work as intended without getting a bunch of questions from retailer or manufacturer. The ones we hear from have an issue with the product. That’s why working in Customer Service demands patience, tact and diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/49 "2021-03-11T12:57:27Z")
[quote=“Nana\_Skalski, post:47, topic:296047”] I made this, and I have not seen CCP gathering feedback in a form of a poll before they added the gambling. Or after. This is not how you should treat customers. [/quote] The HyperNet Relay seems to have been a case of Moses descending from the mountain. It was a done deal from the get go, no one could’ve prevented that monstrosity. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/50 "2021-03-11T13:01:40Z")
> [@Han\_Zealot](#): > > It was a done deal from the get go, no one could’ve prevented that monstrosity. Just like 70$ monocles. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/51 "2021-03-11T13:09:33Z")
Just like a bunch of other things we read about on these forum every day. Some people at CCP/PA seem to have it all figured out, tell us they do, to trust them and basically play’n’shutup, wait for that 🥕 and not mind the stick… I’d like to remind people that the donkey doesn’t actually get the carrot since it’s the carrot that keeps him walking. All I say is: Time Will Tell. Let’s see that grand plan when it takes shape. Meanwhile, CCP isn’t holding anyone hostage. We’re all free to continue playing or to unsubscribe. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/52 "2021-03-11T13:14:33Z")
> [@Han\_Zealot](#): > > All I say is: Time Will Tell. But its CCP who will make it say things. They are developing it. All I say is get the Imicus redesign done. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/53 "2021-03-11T13:21:04Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > But its CCP who will make it say things. LOL seems like they do, don’t they? But if the majority of players don’t like the results of that plan we’ll see mass unsub, more empty systems and pissed off corporation heads. It _will be_ quantifiable. One can’t hide the sun. We’re already seeing discontent through numbers dipping so I doubt CCP will paint a rosy picture if that’s not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/54 "2021-03-11T13:22:21Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > All I say is get the Imicus redesign done. Lots of things have to be improved or redone. The Imicus is _one_ and I agree with you on that. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/55 "2021-03-11T13:27:02Z")
Make it [Beautiful](https://shakuro.com/blog/what-makes-something-beautiful-and-how-to-use-it-in-design). ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/56 "2021-03-11T14:02:13Z")
It will be beautiful when an Amarri designer gets his hands on it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/57 "2021-03-11T14:54:45Z")
On reddit lmao ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-talk-to-the-devs/296047/59 "2021-06-09T15:13:29Z")
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