# What's Holding This Game Back? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098 "2022-02-01T22:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/364 "2022-02-09T18:33:52Z")
> Like you can literally just google it and find an answer usually. But not always the _right_ answer… or even factual answer these days… –Gadget just guesses wrong on purpose ---
**Author:** ![Frege\_Descartes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frege_descartes/32/247951_2.png) [@Frege\_Descartes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frege_Descartes)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/365 "2022-02-09T18:44:25Z")
> [@Gadget Helmsdottir](#): > > _right_ answer With all the changes in this game most of the Google responses are outdated. ---
**Author:** ![Leggone\_Stracks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leggone_stracks/32/290900_2.png) [@Leggone\_Stracks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leggone_Stracks)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/366 "2022-02-09T19:04:52Z")
It’s almost like Eve is fictional place where they keep editing the story and will never let it actually go to print and be finished. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 3:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/367 "2022-02-10T03:09:14Z")
> [@Leggone Stracks](#): > > Wingspan makes some fun videos about their “delivery service.” They aim to please. Null sec home. Think they operate in WHs now. ---
**Author:** ![Lennox\_Dantes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lennox_dantes/32/376609_2.png) [@Lennox\_Dantes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lennox_Dantes)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/368 "2022-02-10T15:31:23Z")
CCP and their desire to increase player restrictions. They effectively halved their player base with this crap years ago, failed to learn their lesson and have proceeded along this stubborn trajectory. IDK if there was a management shift at that time or not, but when a company forgets what made their game unique and abandon their loyalists, you are left with the dreggs. ---
**Author:** ![Frege\_Descartes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frege_descartes/32/247951_2.png) [@Frege\_Descartes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frege_Descartes)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/369 "2022-02-10T23:33:11Z")
> [@Lennox Dantes](#): > > what made their game unique and abandon their loyalists I feel this is very much at the core of the problem. +1 ---
**Author:** ![DeepWaterLife](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deepwaterlife/32/341258_2.png) [@DeepWaterLife](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeepWaterLife)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/370 "2022-04-07T19:56:24Z")
goons. ---
**Author:** ![High\_Priestess\_Seana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/high_priestess_seana/32/509548_2.png) [@High\_Priestess\_Seana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/High_Priestess_Seana)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/371 "2022-04-07T20:07:03Z")
easy… i play both games. Wow is more _co-op_ content and eve is more dog eat dog world. most gamers want to play a games content, not be content for other players (think miners getting ganked, skilled played ganking noobs) this is what killed a game called darkfall as it was a full loot PVP mmo and what did the highest geared/city owners do? (SOV in eve) they farmed new players before they could even understand the mechanics of the game and said GIT GUD till the developers added protection to new players, but it was to little to late. basically in a game like eve…it’s always going to die a slow death because of cannibalism from the best players needing content that is usually _freshmeat_ or has other content they want to do that isn’t pvp. also Nullsec being mostly safer then highsec doesn’t help. _(low sec is where the real risk is at in eve)_ ---
**Author:** ![Quentin\_Schaefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quentin_schaefer/32/471507_2.png) [@Quentin\_Schaefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quentin_Schaefer)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/372 "2022-04-07T20:18:00Z")
> [@High\_Priestess\_Seana](#): > > this is what killed a game called darkfall as it was a full loot PVP mmo and what did the highest geared/city owners do? (SOV in eve) ahh, darkfall. almost played that game, but chose to continue with PlanetSide instead of subbing to another game. That and the fact that their server crashed on release due to all the traffic was hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/373 "2022-04-07T20:56:58Z")
The lack of NFTs holds this game back. 😏 😈 🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_n\_Nemo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/capt_n_nemo/32/314549_2.png) [@Capt\_n\_Nemo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Capt_n_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/374 "2022-04-07T22:02:24Z")
@Frege_Descartes It’s a niche game and so obviously it won’t attract just any and every player. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/375 "2022-04-07T22:50:36Z")
PVE and NON PVE mode. Option to Toggle PVP Off in HighSec and this game will see a increase in different type of new players. My guess though is not the same as others and I am always open to debate. /Note, toggle off would mean no market trade no contracts no duels no being ganked. But if one was to send to market then toggle pvp on as thatis a player interation even when transporting the hull of materials. /It could be as easy as once docked into a npc station and a mission had been sellected then that toggles off the pvp. (by choice) Lastly, Mining is a player interaction as you are stealing from each other. But PI and Missions are pve. Just some ideas. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/376 "2022-04-07T23:04:37Z")
sooo you can be a bunny now in wow? ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/377 "2022-04-07T23:14:42Z")
I thought it was more a fox. I had never unlocked that race. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/378 "2022-04-07T23:51:33Z")
one of the problems i see in eve is the inexorable nature of the many vs few we can be Gods because we are imortal but we cant have homes as soon you have a home you are a slave to the many its very easy to join the bigger group , that way you can have a home one can attack the goons for ever because the f mitans can do , if one dont hold sov but one cant defend Arzad because the mimies are many and the amarians are not in the mood to fight that day that make the capsuler dependent to TS or mumble , of idiotic pseudo friends , of tribes what happen to the misanthropic PVP inclined individual ??? he gets to be a God like hobo … my friend , not me, my friend , said he is getting tired of that totally not talking about me ---
**Author:** ![Erini\_Cat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erini_cat/32/415432_2.png) [@Erini\_Cat](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erini_Cat)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/379 "2022-04-08T00:30:45Z")
WOW died too.If you look at all the space and sci-fi based games, you will see that it is the group with the least player base.MMORPG-style games, whether it’s a science fiction game like eve or a wow, require a lot of time and money.The number of active players in EVE is not even four thousand anymore.This does not increase even if the game is free to play and there is no player who does not know the game.There are 50k active players playing WOW.180 million players play the free League of Legends game.Even though EVE is one of the three biggest games of this genre and it’s free, 4,000 players play it at most.It has nothing to do with the graphics or the gameplay mechanics of the game.Let’s explain the reasons why some games increase the number of players while others decrease. 1-The free player model in the games becomes pay to win as soon as the smallest advantage is given to the paying players, and the players do not play even if it is free.Because the game is not actually free. 2-Players need to spend a lot of time to get stronger or buy a ship they want in-game item.Game makers do this specifically, and players who don’t have much time shorten this time by paying rmoney.This causes players who play the game for free, even if they play for years, they do not become as strong as a player who pays money, and they do not play the games. 3-Many gaming companies are in competition, and as soon as the monetization models of free games go beyond cosmetics, players stop playing.Let’s say I start playing EVE, in how many years can I buy a titan without paying any money?WOW is a much smaller game than you think, there are games you’ve never heard of with a lot more active players. 4-The audiences of players in Eveonline WOW are older players and they are more commonly known as whales.The new generation of gamers don’t like to pay for the games, they have to pay them to play the games.So unlike you, you have to pay for a new generation player to play EVE. or WOW. 5-Many games continued to take the money of the players because they were unrivaled in the past, but now there are new generation and much better games.Would you like to pay and play a twenty year old game or cyber punk 2077 if you are a new generation player? 6-The makers of EVE and WOW are really thinking about how they can spend their credit cards, not the players and the game.Any company that is really old and wants more players does not make their games pay to play or pay to win. The total number of players playing WOW and EVE has less players than an absolutely free sci-fi and space-themed game I’ve played.This is not the number of active players, but the number of players watching the broadcasts on twich. The money I spent for league of legends, which is a completely free game, is over 2 thousand dollars and I only spent it for skins.If I was paid this money every month to play eve or wow, maybe I would continue playing, but frankly, it’s not worth the time I spend.It’s a self-destruct system in games like this. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 4:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/380 "2022-04-08T04:38:21Z")
Sort of like a when a Corp prefers to use a sledgehammer than a hammer? ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Christened](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_christened/32/439994_2.png) [@Nico\_Christened](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Christened)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/381 "2022-04-08T05:50:55Z")
Eve became way to Pay2Win. I can dump a few thousand dollars into this game and basically win the ISK war, inject all the skillpoints I want, and fly virtually anything. Eve lost it’s way. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/382 "2022-04-08T06:14:56Z")
> [@Nico\_Christened](#): > > I can dump a few thousand dollars into this game and basically win the ISK war, inject all the skillpoints I want, and fly virtually anything. Try it. See what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098/383 "2022-04-08T08:56:14Z")
I really like this observation. Easy to overlook this piece, so I’ll highlight it. > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > we can be Gods because we are imortal but we cant have homes > as soon you have a home you are a slave to the many This is the old trap that many fall into. Playing that “God-like hobo” is not as bad as it sounds. It is the way out of the trap. EVE is a very PvE-dependent game, with some of the worst PvE in all of gaming, so to avoid being either an idiot with a credit card or else a slave, you have to scale down and you can. The bigger your ship and your fleet, the less likely you’ll find any sportsmanship in this game. Gods don’t need food or shelter, just entertainment. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/whats-holding-this-game-back/348098.md?page=16)