# When does a ship become a "Loot Pinata" target in High Sec? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2018, 6:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205 "2018-02-28T06:19:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/61 "2018-03-04T20:30:33Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Within the past 4 years that action has escalated exponentially to where now most any ship on autopilot will be Suicide Ganked, regardless of it’s cargo or ship fit. > > A statement without even a shred of evidence to support it. > > In short, DeMichael Crimson has zip for data. Not even a half-assed attempt like I did at looking at the killboards. He has crafted a narrative that is completely divorced from reality and no matter how much evidence to the contrary he will not change his narrative at all. At the very least he has a severe problem with dogmatism. Funny how you pick one specific type of ship and only use a 2 day listing in an attempt to disprove my statement, especially after I said most any ship on autopilot. Furthermore I don’t have to provide anything nor am I going to waste time digging through a killboard in an attempt to prove or disprove anything. Oh by the way, a Killboard is not the definitive source for indisputable info. They don’t record every single ship that’s destroyed in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/62 "2018-03-04T20:49:00Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Funny how you pick one specific type of ship and only use a 2 day listing in an attempt to disprove my statement, especially after I said most any ship on autopilot. Furthermore I don’t have to provide anything nor am I going to waste time digging through a killboard in an attempt to prove or disprove anything. Then get off your cognitively biased ass and go find more data and show us more examples and where I am wrong. You can’t even do that. And as for auto-piloting you can’t even support _that_ either. You have set up a claim that is virtually impossible for anyone outside of CCP to verify. Great way to wall yourself off from any and all empirical checks of you position. _And_ even if CCP came out and said, “We looked at pilots that use autopilot and X% are ganked” and if X% is too “low” you’ll simply claim they are lying. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Oh by the way, a Killboard is not the definitive source for indisputable info. They don’t record every single ship that’s destroyed in the game. Taking the lack of evidence as evidence. Exactly what do you have besides your fevered imaginings? Anything…anything _at all?_ ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/63 "2018-03-04T21:12:06Z")
Yeah, I don’t give a rats ass about your bullcrap stats pulled from a killboard. My statement is based on experience of having a dozen Suicide Gank attempts done on me which all failed. I was in different ships doing autopilot when those attempts happened, not one of those ships was a Transport carrying lot’s of cargo. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/64 "2018-03-04T21:34:40Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Yeah, I don’t give a rats ass about your bullcrap stats pulled from a killboard. My statement is based on experience of having a dozen Suicide Gank attempts done on me which all failed. I was in different ships doing autopilot when those attempts happened, not one of those ships was a Transport carrying lot’s of cargo. That’s it! Wallow in that belief persistance. Well done. 🤣 ![charon_ganks_12018](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/a/8a725663a7e05bd765cc0563f4c867e0159c1c5c.PNG) Okay, so here are some kills for Charons, also in January. Starting at the top and working our way down… The 2 billion Niarja kill was gankable given the number of pilots and the expected cargo drop value. Also gankable given that the ship losses were approximately 420 million and the ex ante expected cargo drop value is about 582 million. Also, there was a plastic wrapped container inside the plastic wrapped container so the cargo value may very well have been higher. The charon loss in Balle is not a gank. The Juunigaishi loss over 9 billion in cargo value…very gankable. The Jakanerva over 7 billion in cargo value. In fact, looks like none of these were actually empty. I’m sorry. There is just no evidence that there is lots of ganking of empty freighters let alone empty auto-piloting freighters. Here…finally found one. > **[Charon | Aronin Bird | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/67342725/)** > > Aronin Bird (Science and Trade Institute) lost their Charon in Uedama (The Citadel). Final Blow by Tax Collector KarlMarx (Gate Tax Collection Agency) flying in a Catalyst. Total Value: 1,264,636,992.94 ISK ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/65 "2018-03-04T22:00:24Z")
Don’t know why you’re stuck on looking for empty Freighters on autopilot, my statement was a generalization which covered all ships. That means shuttles, corvettes, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, barges, etc, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/66 "2018-03-05T00:04:11Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Don’t know why you’re stuck on looking for empty Freighters on autopilot, my statement was a generalization which covered all ships. That means shuttles, corvettes, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, barges, etc, etc. Again…vs. how many moving around? I see this with statistics on dog bites, an issue I am interested in for personal reasons. People will look at a specific breed (setting aside the issue of breed identification, most people are ■■■■ at it). Even if you have a dog breed that has the highest number of dog bite incidents what is missing is the number of dogs of that breed. In other words there is no way to get a good measure of the risk such a breed poses. Suppose you have a breed with 10 dog bites and there are 20 dogs of that breed. And another breed with 10 dog bites and 1,000 dogs of that breed. From a relative risk perspective which dog is more dangerous? Well, the relative risk of the first dog breed is 50, that is you are 50 times more likely to be bit when encountering that dog. Where is the problem? We don’t have any good data on how many dogs of different breeds are out there, and never mind what to do with mixed breed dogs. We have the same problem here. How many people autopiloting get killed in a shuttle? Lets say yesterday it was 500. Yes, I just made it up. Now how many people used a shuttle and autopilot. Is it 500? Is it 2,000? 10,000? That denominator is important because the 500 divided by 500, 2,000 and 10,000 give us unconditional probabilities of 1, 0.25 and 0.05. We can’t tell which probability we have without that denominator…which we do not have. At best is we can say is it is in the interval [0,1]. Never mind the issue of what were they carrying. And also ignoring that things like shuttles move quickly. Do people just shoot them in some systems and “play the numbers”? Hoping after N ganks they’ll get a nice payday? IDK. And in looking through some shuttle kills I don’t see very many that look like ganks in HS. I see all kinds of stuff. So either people are not autopiloting…or ganking shuttles is not that common. I’m sorry, I just am not seeing it. For example, > **[Gallente Shuttle | Mar Egdod | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/68493386/)** > > Mar Egdod (Volunteers Of Indusrty Diciplines) lost their Gallente Shuttle in Uedama (The Citadel). Final Blow by holdmybeer (The Conference Elite) flying in a Thrasher. Total Value: 5,171,864.62 ISK Totally gank worthy. Not gank worthy, > **[Gallente Shuttle | Davion Dragonfall | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/68490445/)** > > Davion Dragonfall (Redbox Delivery) lost their Gallente Shuttle in Jita (The Forge). Final Blow by Siljanna (Flames of the Phoenix) flying in a Thrasher. Total Value: 12,996.62 ISK but what the heck…nobody ganks in those kinds of ships. I’m looking and looking and looking. I don’t see much. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![DireTurnack](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/direturnack/32/19578_2.png) [@DireTurnack](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DireTurnack)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/67 "2018-03-05T01:09:48Z")
When you watch a space movie and see freighters flying thro space, like star wars, Milenium falcon was a freighter class ship but man it took on star destroyers like a boss, You look at eve and Freighters are like no tank no defences just 3 lows. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/68 "2018-03-05T03:58:56Z")
> [@DireTurnack](#): > > You look at eve and Freighters are like no tank no defences just 3 lows. Stop being bad. Putting on three reinforced bulkheads adds a considerable amount to your tank. Getting implants can help as well. And EVE isn’t space opera. ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/69 "2018-03-05T06:26:47Z")
The MF was definitely a blockade runner 😉 –Smuggler Gadget ---
**Author:** ![Orren\_Grund](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/orren_grund/32/378694_2.png) [@Orren\_Grund](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Orren_Grund)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/70 "2018-03-05T07:41:42Z")
[quote=“Teckos\_Pech, post:66, topic:60205”]Again…vs. how many moving around? [/quote] Good question. Some people play a lot more than me, or go to more dangerous places, or fly more expensive ships - I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they get attacked more often. In fact I expect they do based on time spent flying alone, and my very few and far between visits to nullsec. Also no one seems willing to engage random T1 cruisers/BCs/BS if they just fly about minding their own business. Ofc, I never autopilot without at least hearing the client - reading up on why I was going there in a browser window for example. 🙂 Surprisingly enough I’ve been attacked at a gate exactly once so far. And judging by how the two-man team just left after taking 30% off my shields the destroyer probably fired before his frigate mate had scanned my bog-standard industrial to determine it was worth less than them. Maybe he fired on what could be a Blockade Runner before it could do anything, then backed off since it wasn’t worth it? Or the fact I reacted, manuevered and fired up my resist mods meant something? I didn’t really have time to see who it was except for their ship types… Some high-sec kills are undoubtedly just to pad killboards (I’ve seen some PvP corp adverts where they require a certain amount of kills) or out of boredom, so there the cost of getting CONCORDed isn’t as much of a factor. How many I can’t say as I’ve not been a victim yet. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/71 "2018-03-05T11:29:46Z")
The last time a suicide gank was attempted on me I was flying my T3 Cruiser on autopilot while chatting in various channels when two Cruisers unleashed Drones and attacked me. I noticed my shields starting to turn red, about 20% down when I activated my defensive mods and while trying to stop my ship (wouldn’t stop due to AP being active) I saw Concord destroy the 2 Cruisers just before I jumped through the gate. On the other side of the gate my ship went into warp just as I deactivated AP, when it came out of warp I went back to the system where the attack happened just in time to see a Transport ship finish collecting the loot from their wrecks. I saw the 2 pilots in local and asked them why they attacked, their reply was that they were bored and wanted to see if they could do it. Maybe they thought I was afk and figured they could complete the kill before Concord showed up. Even without activating my defensive mods, I highly doubt they would have succeeded in time before Concord showed up due to the large amount of EHP’s on my T3 Cruiser. Bottom line - no reason for the attack other than being bored. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/72 "2018-03-05T13:45:54Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > no reason for the attack other than being bored. Salt collection is no laughing matter Proof: you’re still talking about the _bad people that tried to kill you_ That, in itself, is more valuable than any loot ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Dieu-le-veut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anne_dieu-le-veut/32/148292_2.png) [@Anne\_Dieu-le-veut](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anne_Dieu-le-veut)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/73 "2018-03-05T13:57:45Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Yeah, I don’t give a rats ass about your bullcrap stats pulled from a killboard. My statement is based on experience of having a dozen Suicide Gank attempts done on me which all failed. I was in different ships doing autopilot when those attempts happened, not one of those ships was a Transport carrying lot’s of cargo. You have no evidence what so ever to back your position, other than your own personal experience of allegedly never being successfully ganked in 10 years of playing…which somehow means ganking is a problem. Make sense. 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/74 "2018-03-05T13:58:54Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > no reason for the attack other than being bored. > > Salt collection is no laughing matter > > Proof: you’re still talking about the _bad people that tried to kill you_ > That, in itself, is more valuable than any loot The fact that you try to shift the focus of their failure onto some imagined salt collection is indeed a laughing matter. ---
**Author:** ![Tirkibo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tirkibo/32/275146_2.png) [@Tirkibo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tirkibo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/75 "2018-03-05T14:06:46Z")
To be honest, no ship in high sec is safe, in fact anywhere in game. What is stirring in Eve is a very toxic atmosphere and you can see this spill out onto the forums. My advice, don’t waste your time putting in the hours to buy expensive things in game it’s just not worth it now. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/76 "2018-03-05T14:13:00Z")
Obviously you have to stretch and distort my statement and then reference it out of context in an attempt to prove yourself correct. My initial statement was that within the first 5 years of playing this game I could travel on autopilot within high sec without being attacked, whereas within the past 5 years there has been multiple suicide gank attempts done. I don’t care if you believe me or not, nor do I have to provide any evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Dieu-le-veut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anne_dieu-le-veut/32/148292_2.png) [@Anne\_Dieu-le-veut](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anne_Dieu-le-veut)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/77 "2018-03-05T14:19:22Z")
I quoted the entire post. I didn’t take anything out of context, and providing evidence to back an assertion is generally the way proving a point works, so yeah, you do need to provide evidence. Most people trying (and failing) to use anecdotal evidence to prove something use evidence that actually backs their point, not contradicts it. Do you honestly think CCP is going top change gank mechanics based on your gut feeling? ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/78 "2018-03-05T15:05:53Z")
You clearly don’t understand. If they got you to still talk about it they won. Sure they might have failed the gank, but you’re still talking about it 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/79 "2018-03-05T15:07:24Z")
Yeah you did take it out of context. The point of that statement is that I was in different ships doing autopilot when those attempts happened and not one of those ships was a Transport carrying lot’s of cargo. Also I never said CCP was going to change the mechanics based on my feelings. I don’t have to show proof of my experience but if you have proof that I’m lying then please produce it. ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205/80 "2018-03-05T16:45:43Z")
> [@Tirkibo](#): > > To be honest, no ship in high sec is safe, in fact anywhere in game. What is stirring in Eve is a very toxic atmosphere and you can see this spill out onto the forums. My advice, don’t waste your time putting in the hours to buy expensive things in game it’s just not worth it now. What’s the important rule in EVE? Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose. As for toxicity, I’ve yet to see it personally, but then I haven’t had any rage-emails. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/when-does-a-ship-become-a-loot-pinata-target-in-high-sec/60205.md?page=5)