# Why abyssal space needs disconnect protection **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 23, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906 "2021-03-23T18:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/62 "2021-03-24T19:19:20Z")
> [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > You could say the same about this topic. No, you can’t say the same about this topic. The time lost by losing a ship to a disconnect, compared with the time lost waiting for a guaranteed killmail is not comparable. How long does it take to farm 2-4 billion ISK to replace a T5/T6 ship? More than 10 minutes, by a few orders of magnitude. > [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > At least unless you can show that the disconnect issue is such a large issue that it is affecting the vast majority of abyssal runners. My guess is that the percentage of those with bad disconnect problems is relatively small. Yes, because these players (including me) simply do not run the sites since it is not viable. Your point of view is pretty ridiculous because you seem to believe that improvements to the game should only ever benefit gankers. This change would be an enormous QOL improvement for players who wanted to run abyssal sites, at a **very** slight detriment to gankers, yet you believe that the gankers are more important. You are being extremely selfish. ---
**Author:** ![Gaming513\_Tyler](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaming513_tyler/32/360798_2.png) [@Gaming513\_Tyler](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaming513_Tyler)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/63 "2021-03-24T19:19:53Z")
Just skimming the thread, it seems like the vast majority if not all of the complaints are about preventing death by either cheesing the site itself, or cheesing gankers waiting at the trace ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/64 "2021-03-24T19:20:35Z")
Another thread demonstrating why abyss space should never have been implemented in the first place. We need another trash can…i mean sticky. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/65 "2021-03-24T19:21:30Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > The entire thread which is discussing basically something like this and listing all the exploits. I’ve put an unexploitable solution in the CSM thread about abyssal protection in the CSM section. There is no reason to worry about exploits. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/66 "2021-03-24T19:22:08Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > why abyss space should never have been implemented in the first place. The basic idea of space you only have a limited time in before it gets too dangerous and you have to leave isn’t terrible. The instanced nature which means disconnects can’t just warp you back out to regular space, that’s where all the issues come from. > [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > I’ve put an unexploitable solution BWAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHA. Yeah. That’s about all I have to say to that kind of claim. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/67 "2021-03-24T19:23:00Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > BWAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHA. Yeah. That’s about all I have to say to that kind of claim. An expected response from an ignorant monkey who hasn’t read it. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/68 "2021-03-24T19:40:22Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > The basic idea of space you only have a limited time in before it gets too dangerous and you have to leave isn’t terrible. The instanced nature which means disconnects can’t just warp you back out to regular space, that’s where all the issues come from. You can’t have one without the other. If you can escape from a disconnect, then you can pull the plug when you get a bad roll for rats and environment. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/69 "2021-03-24T19:42:14Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > then you can pull the plug when you get a bad roll for rats and environment. Except if you could just warp out like you can from a regular site when you are struggling then it’s not any issue if a disconnect also warps you out right? Since a disconnect warp doesn’t magically ignore points/scrams either. I.E. I’m saying “If Abyssal space was a special type of deadspace, not a totally separate system” ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/70 "2021-03-24T20:31:03Z")
> [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > Don’t make a mountain out of a molehill. If people can make gankers waste 10 minutes by disconnecting their game, people _will_ make gankers waste 10 minutes by disconnecting from the game. This makes disconnecting from the game a powerful and viable gameplay strategy and people who wouldn’t use it would be at a disadvantage. CCP has three options in that case: 1. Declare intentionally disconnecting your game an exploit → _unmeasurable and therefore undoable_ 2. Accept that people will be intentionally disconnecting their game as meta gameplay → _unwanted gameplay_ 3. Not implement such an easily abused system in the first place → _which is why I’m against your proposal_ ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/71 "2021-03-24T20:36:21Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > If people can make gankers waste 10 minutes by disconnecting their game, people _will_ make gankers waste 10 minutes by disconnecting from the game. What’s you’re point? I see nothing wrong with ■■■■■■■ with gankers. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/72 "2021-03-24T20:37:52Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > What’s you’re point? I see nothing wrong with ■■■■■■■ with gankers. > > Mr Epeen 🕶 Nothing wrong with messing with gankers. But I do think something is wrong with the game design when ‘plug your internet’ becomes part of the meta. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/73 "2021-03-24T20:45:16Z")
> [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > No, you can’t say the same about this topic. The time lost by losing a ship to a disconnect, compared with the time lost waiting for a guaranteed killmail is not comparable. How long does it take to farm 2-4 billion ISK to replace a T5/T6 ship? More than 10 minutes, by a few orders of magnitude. Missing the point again. I’m talking about the fact that the number of people with disconnect issues in EVE being very small. Unless you’d like to prove me wrong from cursory observations of these kinds of threads etc the number of people affected by this issue is extremely small. And I’m not saying for those people it is not a real issue. However CCP like any game dev has finite resources. So do they work on coming up with a system to help the 1% who have unstable connections, when that solution will need to be thoroughly tested and balanced? Or do they put it into other aspects of the game that will benefit a huge number of players? > [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > Your point of view is pretty ridiculous because you seem to believe that improvements to the game should only ever benefit gankers Where have I even advocated for ganker? I accept that ganking is part of EVE, but I don’t like it, nor do I advocate for it. I would never participate in it either. Changes however do affect the risk/reward ratio for an activity. High end abyssals can be very lucrative. They are also very risky. All of that has to be taken into account. And again, unless you can show differently, you are talking about a non-trivial amount of work for what I expect is an exceedingly small number of pilots. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/74 "2021-03-24T20:51:09Z")
The end result of a bunch of snowflakes posting bizarre and convoluted scenarios showing why a simple thing like protecting very expensive ships from getting blapped by NPCs because of a server hiccup are going to end up whining because no one is running abyssals. Then it’ll be back to sitting on a gate for sixteen hours a day. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/75 "2021-03-24T21:02:46Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > If people can make gankers waste 10 minutes by disconnecting their game, people _will_ make gankers waste 10 minutes by disconnecting from the game. This makes disconnecting from the game a powerful and viable gameplay strategy and people who wouldn’t use it would be at a disadvantage. > > CCP has three options in that case: > > 1. Declare intentionally disconnecting your game an exploit → _unmeasurable and therefore undoable_ > 2. Accept that people will be intentionally disconnecting their game as meta gameplay → _unwanted gameplay_ > 3. Not implement such an easily abused system in the first place → _which is why I’m against your proposal_ A complete red herring. I **highly** doubt most players are going to go to the effort of maintaining a second account to scout their own trace, for the chance to make gankers wait an extra 10 minutes **at maximum** before they get killed. If a ganker is at your trace, they are waiting until you are coming out, no matter how long it takes. That’s the mentality of a ganker. No ganker is going to leave after 20 minutes because you didn’t come out of the site yet. Black Ops players will literally sit for hours with no guarantee of any action. Capital fleets regularly log off for months and wait until the campers leave to save their ships, and you are worried about a 10 minute log off? Get real man. Camping a trace is virtually a guaranteed killmail. Nowhere else in the game does that guarantee exist. You are fabricating nonsense just to be contrarian. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/76 "2021-03-24T21:07:12Z")
> [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > Missing the point again. I’m talking about the fact that the number of people with disconnect issues in EVE being very small. Unless you’d like to prove me wrong from cursory observations of these kinds of threads etc the number of people affected by this issue is extremely small. > > And I’m not saying for those people it is not a real issue. However CCP like any game dev has finite resources. So do they work on coming up with a system to help the 1% who have unstable connections, when that solution will need to be thoroughly tested and balanced? Or do they put it into other aspects of the game that will benefit a huge number of players? That’s just a completely dumb argument. Every time a serious problem exists for a minority of players, the answer for you is just ignore them. Basically, it’s the best you can come up with because you can’t actually think of anything useful to say. > [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > Where have I even advocated for ganker? I accept that ganking is part of EVE, but I don’t like it, nor do I advocate for it. I would never participate in it either. I’m sure… > [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > Changes however do affect the risk/reward ratio for an activity. High end abyssals can be very lucrative. They are also very risky. All of that has to be taken into account. And again, unless you can show differently, you are talking about a non-trivial amount of work for what I expect is an exceedingly small number of pilots. Then the rewards can be adjusted to suit. The risk reward should not be balanced around the fact that some players are straight up excluded from participating for no good reason. Also, if the % of players that this is an issue for is small, **AS YOU CLAIM** , then it will have very little effect on the game anyway, so your issue is not an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/77 "2021-03-24T21:21:47Z")
> [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > That’s just a completely dumb argument. Every time a serious problem exists for a minority of players, the answer for you is just ignore them. Basically, it’s the best you can come up with because you can’t actually think of anything useful to say. You obviously don’t run a business. Every time any business needs to make a decision they have to weigh how much it will cost in manpower resources vs how much benefit it will achieve. Say arbitrarily this take 200 hours. And it helps say 1000 players who don’t run abyssal sites due to connection problems. Then they have some other feature. Maybe a new PVE activity. And it will take 200 hours, and 10,000 players will get to enjoy it. It’s a simple numbers game. You can argue all you want in this thread. It will do nothing. If you ACTUALLY wanted to try and effect change, first get out there and find all the pilots you can who have the problem you have. Use that DATA to be able to show this is not just affecting a small population, but in fact it affects a large population. Then you bring that data and maybe change might happen. My guess it that CCP knows that data already btw. They can look at far more metrics than we can. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/78 "2021-03-24T21:23:03Z")
> [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > You obviously don’t run a business. Every time any business needs to make a decision they have to weigh how much it will cost in manpower resources vs how much benefit it will achieve. > > Say arbitrarily this take 200 hours. And it helps say 1000 players who don’t run abyssal sites due to connection problems. > > Then they have some other feature. Maybe a new PVE activity. And it will take 200 hours, and 10,000 players will get to enjoy it. > > It’s a simple numbers game. You can argue all you want in this thread. It will do nothing. > > If you ACTUALLY wanted to try and effect change, first get out there and find all the pilots you can who have the problem you have. Use that DATA to be able to show this is not just affecting a small population, but in fact it affects a large population. Then you bring that data and maybe change might happen. > > My guess it that CCP knows that data already btw. They can look at far more metrics than we can. I have a better idea. Let’s ignore everything you want in the game, anything you have to say, and any players like you. That is what you are advocating for so I’m sure you will agree. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/79 "2021-03-24T21:27:29Z")
> [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > A complete red herring. I **highly** doubt most players are going to go to the effort of maintaining a second account to scout their own trace, for the chance to make gankers wait an extra 10 minutes **at maximum** before they get killed. If a ganker is at your trace, they are waiting until you are coming out, no matter how long it takes. That’s the mentality of a ganker. No ganker is going to leave after 20 minutes because you didn’t come out of the site yet. > > Black Ops players will literally sit for hours with no guarantee of any action. > > Capital fleets regularly log off for months and wait until the campers leave to save their ships, and you are worried about a 10 minute log off? Get real man. > > Camping a trace is virtually a guaranteed killmail. Nowhere else in the game does that guarantee exist. > > You are fabricating nonsense just to be contrarian. I’m not maintaining a second account just to scout my own trace, but if I were to do abyssals I would have my alt (which I already have for other purposes anyway) right next to it, just in case. I mean, why not take these precautions? Then if enemy ships are waiting on that trace for me to come back, I would ask my corp to scare them off. If they take a couple minutes too long to form, yanking that internet cable is going to look _very tempting._ Camping a trace is no guaranteed killmail. Only if the gankers are _undisturbed_ in those 10 extra minutes they get that kill. I understand that some people never group together to fight back, but for people who are in an active pvp corporation, 10 minutes is a lot of time to form a defence. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/80 "2021-03-24T21:27:40Z")
> [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > I have a better idea. Let’s ignore everything you want in the game, anything you have to say, and any players like you. That is what you are advocating for so I’m sure you will agree. As I said earlier, you have you head so far up in your idea, you cannot think objectively. First off that isn’t even what I said. For example yes it doesn’t matter what “I” want in the game. CCP isn’t going to implement anything that “I” as a single person wants in the game. However if there is something I was passionate about adding or changing in the game, I would do the hard work of finding others interested. I would get as big of a group that I could so that we could say “WE” would like this in the game, and we are XX% of your playerbase. That is far more compelling. Or you can just keep punching at the wall. I’m sure it will move eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906/81 "2021-03-24T21:40:13Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I’m not maintaining a second account just to scout my own trace, but if I were to do abyssals I would have my alt (which I already have for other purposes anyway) right next to it, just in case. I mean, why not take these precautions? > > Then if enemy ships are waiting on that trace for me to come back, I would ask my corp to scare them off. If they take a couple minutes too long to form, yanking that internet cable is going to look _very tempting._ > > Camping a trace is no guaranteed killmail. Only if the gankers are _undisturbed_ in those 10 extra minutes they get that kill. I understand that some people never group together to fight back, but for people who are in an active pvp corporation, 10 minutes is a lot of time to form a defence. Don’t you gankers like PVP anyway? I thought you would love players to get their corp to come fight you. Apparently it seems that you are scared of actual PVP then. Kinda pathetic. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-abyssal-space-needs-disconnect-protection/301906.md?page=5)