# Why are Catalysts used to gank instead of Thrashers? Asking for a friend **URL:** \ **Category:** Warfare & Tactics\ **Created:** [June 10, 2023, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722 "2023-06-10T12:24:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aeryn_maricadie/32/373550_2.png) [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aeryn_Maricadie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/1 "2023-06-10T12:24:12Z")
So yes obviously Catalyst has higher dps numbers, thing is if you do the math for the limited amount of time a ganker has the arty Thrasher actually has higher dps because the first volley is at “0” time and effectively free. Assuming the posted concord response numbers are correct it _roughly_ breaks down as such: 6sec response time Catalyst 3 volley Thrasher 2 7sec response time Catalyst 4 volley Thrasher 2 10s Catalyst 5 volley Thrasher 3 14s Catalyst 7 volley Thrasher 4 19s Catalyst 10 Volley Thrasher 5 I say roughly because you can alter the guns slightly on the thrasher depending on time to squeeze in an extra volley, however the blasters all have same reload. This means that under certain timing circumstances Thrasher will do more damage based on getting in a volley that a catalyst could not, and the fact that the Thrashers Volleys are significantly higher damage than Catalyst. However story doesn’t end there, because arty can choose damage type, especially EMP which is the biggest hole of ships that anti-tank to fit more cargo. So am I missing something, or did I just revolutionize Ganking? ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/2 "2023-06-10T12:56:33Z")
Oh dear lord, **both** get used by “elite PVP” cowards… ---
**Author:** ![Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aeryn_maricadie/32/373550_2.png) [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aeryn_Maricadie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/3 "2023-06-10T13:23:36Z")
Right but my understanding is Catalyst is used primarily because it supposedly has higher dps, while Thrasher is used for podding. If I am correct there is really no reason to use Catalyst over Thrasher. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/4 "2023-06-10T14:24:37Z")
U might want to share the fits used for your calculations? Did you factor in overheat? ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/5 "2023-06-10T16:49:22Z")
Nobody is stopping you from using thrashers if you want. Fit them accordingly and start shooting. Why is it for you to decide what people wanna fly or not. One can never really know what goes on in someone else’s mind. Most of the time, I don’t even know, entirely, what goes on in mine. If you think, thrashers do a better job, then buy them and do as you see fit. If someone else wants to fly the Catalyst, let them. The Cormorant and the Coercer are only slightly less capable, since the range bonus for the Cormorant doesn’t help where you need a lot of hurt and the Coercer might be better in lowsec nullsec, but in there it doesn’t matter what you bring anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/6 "2023-06-10T21:55:13Z")
Catalyst has higher dps thanks to overheat. Overheat on hybrid turrets increased DPS directly. Overheat on projectile turrets decreases reload time. Which doesn’t scale well with limited time you have for gank especially for artillery ones. Autocannons doesn’t have that good DPS compared to blasters because 7 versus 8 slots, although there are other advantages namely higher optimal range/falloff and better ammo damage profile. On the other hand if you choose wrong ammo - you guess the target has a hole in explosive because the ship type normally has weak resists in explo (say Astero) and the ship is shield tanked then you are ■■■■■■, when with catalyst you wouldn’t neccessarily be… In the end it comes to logistic and pilot skills imo. But generally speaking catalysts are slightly better than autocannon trashers (EDIT: against stationary target which can’t get out of the optimal himself in the time). And while it would make sense to use both, initiate with thrashers against shields, finish off armor/hull with catalysts, it is logistical nightmare hence rarely anyone does that in long run. Eventually hecates and stealth bombers are better, but there is also a cost factor, so it makes no sense to use that against something you don’t get juicy loot from. ---
**Author:** ![Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aeryn_maricadie/32/373550_2.png) [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aeryn_Maricadie)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/7 "2023-06-11T02:44:09Z")
I did the math with pyfa, Heated catalyst neutron blaster 1 vs heated 280 1 Thrasher. Catalyst gets 782 every 2.06 secs, Thrasher gets 1484 every 5.25 secs. With a six second response time Thrasher does 2968 total damage Catalyst does 2346. You can do this by fitting a burst aerator rig to Thrasher because it is cheap, you could do same for Catalyst to get the 4th volley you are just missing but it increases total cost by about 40% since its not cheap. If just going by dps vs stated Concord response time Thrasher wins (not in 7 sec response time though I was wrong there) why I am asking is I want to know if there is something I am missing, like does Concord not always respond at stated time, is it precise enough that saying a 6.18 sec reload for fourth Catalyst volley will prevent it from landing? (and yes I know about pulling but don’t those also have stated times that can be planned for?) Now My “friend” would never stoop so low as to actually gank some poor miner, this is all clearly theoretical, for Science. ---
**Author:** ![Fifie\_Brindacier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fifie_brindacier/32/373279_2.png) [@Fifie\_Brindacier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fifie_Brindacier)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 6:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/8 "2023-06-11T06:22:49Z")
Because the Catalyst is the most awesome ship in the whole game. > [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](#): > > Now My “friend” would never stoop so low as to actually gank some poor miner, this is all clearly theoretical, for Science Of course. I can now hear the miners sigh in collective relief. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/9 "2023-06-11T15:58:56Z")
Why are people attempting to reexamine the wheel again? The gankers know what they are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aeryn_maricadie/32/373550_2.png) [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aeryn_Maricadie)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/10 "2023-06-11T16:17:10Z")
For Science! Seriously this topic is posed as a question not a statement that they are wrong. Maybe I’m asking because my friend wants to set up a ganking alt, maybe I’m asking because my friend wants to know how to be harder to gank, maybe I have two friends… Well that last one is improbable. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/11 "2023-06-11T18:40:46Z")
Well, even with the higher alpha, the DPS difference is just too enormeous to give the Thrashers an advantage. I used the Catalyst that Aiko Danuja used recently, T2 fit with Void, 1443 damage every 1.78sec (overheated). For comparison the 280mm Thrasher that Aaaaarg uses in Jita. T2 Artys with Domination Fusion Rounds. That one has 2225 damage every 5.33sec (overheated). This would lead to the following table: > **[Screenshot](https://prnt.sc/1WSZ4tqossRP)** > > Captured with Lightshot (every time one of each guns cycle there is a datapoint comparison for total damage dealt so far). To know which server-tick it is, divide the ms by 1000 so you can compare tick by tick if you want. As you can clearly see, the Thrasher leads only up to the second volley ( a miniscule amount for a mere 10ms…), after that the Catalysts get away with every second. That being said, everything you can shoot in two volleys (below 6 seconds), a Thrasher can compete. Everything else that lives for longer than 6 seconds, Catalysts win by a huge margin. ---
**Author:** ![Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aeryn_maricadie/32/373550_2.png) [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aeryn_Maricadie)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/12 "2023-06-12T02:30:56Z")
Ah I see, I knew you could up the dps with a burst aerator but it wasn’t cost efficient to do so on the meta fit catalyst. But if you are gonna spend on t2 then it makes sense. also I think only one is needed, it gets salvo down to 1.97 sec which is enough given my understanding of how server ticks work. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 7:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/13 "2023-06-12T07:25:32Z")
if your friend is doing Solo Elite PVP, he should consider a polarized naga. ---
**Author:** ![Ciryc\_Lagrej](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ciryc_lagrej/32/375359_2.png) [@Ciryc\_Lagrej](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ciryc_Lagrej)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/14 "2023-06-12T12:38:24Z")
Because if humans never iterated on the wheel we’d still be using stone wheels? ---
**Author:** ![Kaivarian\_Coste](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaivarian_coste/32/413759_2.png) [@Kaivarian\_Coste](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaivarian_Coste)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/15 "2023-06-12T13:53:34Z")
it’s also situational. if you can’t get close to your target, a thrasher may be better. i’ve hunted high sec DED runners in the past and they like to scoot once they see a catalyst in their site heading straight towards them. but a stationary thrasher can volley a reasonable distance away. plus the trasher can fit a probe launcher in the spare high slot. again, good for hunting. ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Olson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarah_olson/32/377582_2.png) [@Sarah\_Olson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarah_Olson)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/16 "2023-06-12T16:47:28Z")
Something I’ve been wondering about, since the game operates at a 1hz tick rate, extremely slow indeed, how does rate of fire work when it is not an integer value? Is there any advantage to having say a 1.5 sec rof over a 1.75? In game it will display the theoretical dps difference between the two rof but in practice will there be any actual difference? ---
**Author:** ![Fifie\_Brindacier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fifie_brindacier/32/373279_2.png) [@Fifie\_Brindacier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fifie_Brindacier)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/17 "2023-06-12T16:55:54Z")
> [@Sarah\_Olson](#): > > but in practice will there be any actual difference? And is there a way to measure/compare? ---
**Author:** ![Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aeryn_maricadie/32/373550_2.png) [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aeryn_Maricadie)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/18 "2023-06-12T16:57:28Z")
> [@Sarah\_Olson](#): > > Something I’ve been wondering about, since the game operates at a 1hz tick rate, extremely slow indeed, how does rate of fire work when it is not an integer value? Is there any advantage to having say a 1.5 sec rof over a 1.75? > > In game it will display the theoretical dps difference between the two rof but in practice will there be any actual difference? Based on my understanding, yes it does matter for weapons. It starts to calculate damage from the moment you press fire and will apply damage consistently at that rate. It gets weird with other calculations like warp and stuff though those are calculated at the tick. This is why you can sometimes explode after your client has initiated a warp. Your client says you’ve warped so plays the animation, but then the server sends a belated message saying actually your ship blew up. EVE University explains it a bit better. [Server tick - EVE University Wiki](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Server_tick) ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/19 "2023-06-12T17:39:37Z")
> [@](#): > > EVE University: > > This is also how EVE handles weapons that can fire more than once per tick: it simulates them properly, and then both shots appear on the next tick. This is the important part. There is no damage “lost” by having odd cycle times, there is no “round up” or “round down” there will just be ticks where you deal “double damage” because it adds up the damage from the current and the last tick. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722/20 "2023-06-13T14:44:11Z")
> [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > **both** get used by “elite PVP” cowards Carebear Alert. Carebear Alert. Carebear Alert… [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-are-catalysts-used-to-gank-instead-of-thrashers-asking-for-a-friend/408722.md?page=2)