# Why didnt u sell on top? 📉 **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 15, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275 "2021-01-15T18:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 2:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/307 "2021-03-01T02:06:58Z")
Feel free to cite where it says that lightning transactions get written to the blockchain. And no, a channel closing doesn’t contain any lightning transactions, in fact a channel can be held open indefinitely and billions of transactions can go over it, none of them get written to the blockhain. I opened the channels for my node with 1 sat/vbyte, cost me like $0.1. And now I can do as many transactions as I want for as long as I want for a fraction of a sat in fees, with instant finality. But apparently that shouldn’t work according to you. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/308 "2021-03-01T02:09:39Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Feel free to cite where it says that lightning transactions get written to the blockchain. … You do understand that lightning transactions are not finalized and do not transfer bitcoin to your wallet until the results are written to the blockchain, right? ---
**Author:** ![lilsteel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lilsteel/32/272085_2.png) [@lilsteel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/lilsteel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 2:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/310 "2021-03-01T02:35:42Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > A lot of the lightning fanatics favour keeping their funds locked inside the lightning network and spending it within that, never closing channels. Not really, but, they like teaming up with people when those they targets are not in on their opportunity, hoping the army won’t notice, and trying to keep them imprisoned to do their bidings. As soon as those they don’t want try to join in on it with them, they trash it and design a new system to marginalize them, again, as illegally as it was before, and still against international law, and post WWII peace treaties. There will be nothing new there. – It’s the same monopoly charges IBM, AT&T, Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Facebook are facing, for the same reason, and with the same Sherman act. > **[Sherman Antitrust Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act_of_1890)** > > The Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 (26 Stat. 209, 15 U.S.C. §§ 1–7) is a United States antitrust law which prescribes the rule of free competition among those engaged in commerce. It was passed by Congress and is named for Senator John Sherman, its principal author. > The Sherman Act broadly prohibits 1) anticompetitive agreements and 2) unilateral conduct that monopolizes or attempts to monopolize the relevant market. The Act authorizes the Department of Justice to bring suits to enjoin (i.e. p... Oh yes, and Intel. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/311 "2021-03-01T08:48:23Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > You do understand that lightning transactions are not finalized and do not transfer bitcoin to your wallet until the results are written to the blockchain, right? Lightning transactions happens on the lightning network and they are finalized on the lightning network. If you send me some Sats with lightning the transaction is finalized, meaning I can go on to spend those coins again on the Lightning network. That is what finalized means. It doesn’t mean I have to close the channel, that would make zero sense and yes in that case it would be an extremely stupid concept. There is no need to close the channel unless I no longer want to connect to a certain other node. I can go on and use that channel for years, for the lifetime of the node actually. Interaction with the base layer is only necessary to open/close those channels or change liquidity of this channels if the need arises. It is not required for individual transactions on Lightning to be finalized. To even suggest that you need to close the channel to actually get the coins to a wallet shows either some severe lack of understanding about the whole concept or is just a really stupid attempt to try to make it look like you still have some argument left (which you don’t) So again, how am I paying for the main chain with my lightning transacions? ---
**Author:** ![Skriven\_Penshar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skriven_penshar/32/249904_2.png) [@Skriven\_Penshar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skriven_Penshar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/313 "2021-03-03T19:46:33Z")
> [@Zoiie](#): > > You certinally won’t be fighting for your liberties and freedoms. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Why would I want to stand within the blast radius of a drone strike aimed at taking out a domestic terrorist? Fighting doesn’t need to involve guns ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/314 "2021-03-03T20:28:33Z")
Guns were there to defend property. Since that is going away gradually for usual Joe in USA, guns will not be needed anymore, not in such number or character as used before. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/315 "2021-03-03T20:38:37Z")
I thought the guns were so they could take the land from the Indians. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/316 "2021-03-03T21:04:42Z")
There are two options basically: USA will have to survive a revolution that will cause cancelling of the debts and redistribution of wealth and land, cased by people with guns, or it will become an mass surveilance state where gun control is strict. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/317 "2021-03-03T21:38:45Z")
Option 2. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/318 "2021-03-03T22:09:07Z")
No. Keep investing. Our glorius leader Xin Jinping has given China the electrical capabilities to provide for more calculations. Over 64% of all calculations (hashes) are processed by Chinese servers. I always giggled like a little schoolgirl when bitcoinerminers answered me ‘the people’ controlled the power that makes it possible to make an actual transaction. All your coins are belong to 'the people’s republic of China. The calculations will only increase, if only people outside of China mastered the skill of simple mathematics and strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/319 "2021-03-03T22:17:52Z")
Thanks man, this thread would not have been complete without some China FUD ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/320 "2021-03-03T22:25:08Z")
Since bitcoin is traced, the hashing and electricity use is not a secret. I don’t care about how you secure your investments, one can build a forge and smelt silver into ignots. Takes power too, but at least you can trade it when you want. When is the next time the calculations become more complex? You seem to know a lot about the advantages but are quiet about the disadvantages. Extremely quiet, then reply shifty when confronted with facts. I am sorry you hate facts, please keep informing people with your ‘professional advice’… ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/321 "2021-03-03T22:50:34Z")
I’m aware that the biggest part of the hashing power comes from china. I just don’t see a problem with that. Wana let us all in on your china conspiracy? What other facts do I hate? ---
**Author:** ![Skriven\_Penshar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skriven_penshar/32/249904_2.png) [@Skriven\_Penshar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skriven_Penshar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/322 "2021-03-03T23:28:14Z")
What exactly is going away? And guns were used as much as a way to procure food as for protection. Hard to hold off a horde with a flintlock, but does wonders for putting food on the table. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > There are two options basically: USA will have to survive a revolution that will cause cancelling of the debts and redistribution of wealth and land, cased by people with guns, or it will become an mass surveilance state where gun control is strict At least we can just focus on those two issues. Makes planning for either scenario much easier. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/323 "2021-03-04T09:00:45Z")
Then it’s ok. Like I said I don’t care about bitcoins because I don’t invest in them. In the meanwhile I have read up on the very long thread here and I do see you have a lot of experience with bitcoins and can differentiate well between the different coins and the technology that drives them. Just be aware that you, or any bitcoin enthusiast in general, have a coin that is controlled for over 50% by a country that could have opposite trade intentions than your country. And it is not impossible that their government could use it as a leverage against other countries. Trade embargoes are not a conspiracy theory, it’s power used by a government to negotiate with other nations so they can avoid war. It is in a way comparable with assets from other countries in banks of opposing countries. It’s a risk, but investments like gold/silver, shares and bitcoins all have their advantages and disadvantages. I just like to point out there are disadvantages and am always met with evasive answers or “Don’t listen to that guy, he’s a conspiracy theorist, just look at his stylish aluminum fedora! He just wants to make you sell your bitcoins to get you into the aluminum trade!” to which I generally reply “Tin foil hats are cheaper and more durable.”. 😉 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/324 "2021-03-04T09:58:35Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > a coin that is controlled for over 50% by a country that could have opposite trade intentions than your country Well first, my country is not in a trade war with China. And second, China is a pretty big country with a lot of different people, In the same way I do not expect every US citizen to have the same values, intelligence and behavior as their president or political system. The hash rate inside China is all over the place and those 70% are not concentrated but completely different operations, so “controlled by a country” is in my opinion completely misleading. Also the feasibility and impact of a 50% attack on Bitcoin is largely exaggerated and misunderstood by most people. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Then it’s ok. Like I said I don’t care about bitcoins because I don’t invest in them. Even for people not otherwise interested in crypto it may be a good option. It is a completely new extremely uncorrelated asset class that helps with diversification. A 1% exposure to Bitcoin has absolutely minimal risk and still potentially huge upsides. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/325 "2021-03-04T10:03:41Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > that could have opposite trade intentions than your country The intentions are to be the number one in worlds economy, to be the “greatest country ever”, and for that they need soft power, they need open trade routes, they need to control currency. Being capable of controlling any cryptocurrency just ensures the goal. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/327 "2021-03-09T15:09:44Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > You need only a very few people to keep the machines going. All the richest people, with the most power, are the ones that benefit from automation and would prefer to keep their human employees to a minimum. Yeah, that’s probably what the humans in this story’s past thought, too: [http://www.visbox.com/prajlich/forster.html](http://www.visbox.com/prajlich/forster.html) Best for as many peops to know how to do technical stuff as possible to preserve not only the machines in the future but also humanity, bc… we sure do love to be dependent on our technological innovations. ---
**Author:** ![lilsteel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lilsteel/32/272085_2.png) [@lilsteel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/lilsteel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 3:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/328 "2021-03-10T03:09:46Z")
Today , I made money with Crypto. My other Transaction System was authorized, but by then, I had no money left in the bank. It went to around under 7 to 10%… Now it’s positive return on investment but low for now, I think it is about to change shortly. My previous investment from 2019 returned around 200% so far. I am about to transfer it to a new wallet that I got around 1 to 2 months ago, for Dogecoin. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 3:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/329 "2021-03-10T03:38:54Z")
I hear Dogecoin will outperform everything. Better than gold, it is. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275.md?page=14)