# Why didnt u sell on top? 📉 **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 15, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275 "2021-01-15T18:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/790 "2021-04-15T12:07:50Z")
> [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > They are, as stated before, most likely going to relegate cryptos to an asset class they can tax. That’s already been done. Taxes are still owed on bitcoin and not paying the taxes you owe is criminal tax evasion. And laws are in progress to require registration of bitcoin wallets so they can be traced to an individual person, eliminating the difficulty in collecting the taxes that are owed. But currently refusing to pay taxes because you’re using bitcoin is no different from a server in a restaurant not reporting cash tips to the IRS. You can do it, you probably won’t get caught, but it’s still criminal tax evasion if the IRS ever decides to pursue it. And TBH it doesn’t even matter. Taxation is not a bad thing, currency works just fine when people pay the taxes they owe. Only in libertarian fantasy land is taxation some kind of existential threat and not a basic obligation of living in a functioning society. ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/791 "2021-04-15T12:10:22Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > That’s already been done. Taxes are still owed on bitcoin and not paying the taxes you owe is criminal tax evasion. True true. Enforcement is currently lax. As adoption increases enforcement will become more strict. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/792 "2021-04-15T12:25:43Z")
> [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > No one knows the future. We do know the past however, and we do have history that shows us how governments and bankers behave when their monopolies are challenged. They are, as stated before, most likely going to relegate cryptos to an asset class they can tax. Yeah, but that is just as long as the traditional financial system and the traditional bankers are the rich guys with power. That is already shifting. And it’s also a generational thing. And there will be international pressure as to who is at the forefront of this technology will have massive advantages. I don’t think the “government will not allow it” is a valid argument. I don’t think they have a choice unless they want to cripple their own financial sector. It’s once again similar to pretending the government will not allow the internet because they will lose their power over the communication networks, which where in fact in a lot of countries even state owned until now so long ago. They could have prevented the internet yes? At what cost if other countries participate? Tax policies will have to be adjusted to reflect the use cases. This will happen automatically over the next couple of years. > [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > It is a mean reverting study, if it dips below the LR, it may be worth adding to that position, but not until then. Buy low, sell high. Well I bought over the last years when it was under 10k, stopped accumulating in december. I’m not sure if we are already overvalued, maybe we are. But I expect it to go quite some higher this run still before it crashes to around the levels we have today I would guess. We will see. Yeah but it’s funny to now constantly hear the question from relatives about if they should buy now. I told them last year and they ignored me. > [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > The difference is, my use applies to all peoples and all things world wide, where your use is specific to the crypto/block-chain world … yes? It ideally will at one point apply to all the people. We will see about that as well. In my opinion (which is based on a lot of observations and thought on the subject) this is simply inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/793 "2021-04-15T13:05:38Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > It ideally will at one point apply to all the people. We will see about that as well. In my opinion (which is based on a lot of observations and thought on the subject) this is simply inevitable. I suppose that is where we most differ, how inevitable is it. Sorry for the brief, response, markets are open, so attention is there. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/794 "2021-04-15T14:02:08Z")
Thanks guys. It really brightened my morning to see how this topic came back alive. There are some real zingers in here. It is like watching a bunch of boxers have a slap fight. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/795 "2021-04-15T14:44:50Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Coinbase I was just watching youtube on the couch on my PS4 yesterday (where I’m not logged in to youtube, have no adblockers, etc)… freakin’ Coinbase advert in front of a vid with nothing to do with blockchain, bitcoin, finances at all… This is a sign. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/796 "2021-04-15T14:49:25Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Bitcoin is money like those town currency things, where the downtown businesses print fake bills that you can only spend at those businesses and encourage you to come shop there. It has little or no inherent value, you can’t spend it outside of a few niche places, and at some point it will cease to have value at all. The only difference is that with bitcoin fanboy speculation and wishful thinking have driven its price up to levels that are completely out of touch with its practical usefulness. Bitcoin is a coupon designed to trick people into thinking it’s money, IOW? 😉 > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Why? What does an NFT add to this situation, except for being a fanboy buzzword? > > (The answer is nothing. NFTs are the most over-hyped nonsense I’ve seen in a long time, and that’s saying something given we’re having this discussion in a thread on bitcoin.) Egad. NFTs… a recent innovation in making cryptocurrency look reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/797 "2021-04-15T16:34:18Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > What debate? Bitcoin is money I need to buy stock in the company that makes Koolaid!! ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/798 "2021-04-15T17:34:38Z")
Check and see if Koolaid is offering any NFTs. ---
**Author:** ![Arkhis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arkhis/32/374354_2.png) [@Arkhis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arkhis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/799 "2021-04-15T18:20:23Z")
> Congratulations, now you’re right back in the financial system you claim to be independent of what’s the issue here? you asked me a big hypothetical and i provided a valid way to work around it. notice i didn’t say i’d sell all the bitcoin, only as much as i need to go about my life. what was the purpose of that hypothetical? feels like it’s just a gotcha without any actual followup. the original point that led to this hypothetical was that i’m in control of my assets - and i still am. > Do those 12 words grant you immigration status and allow you to work in your new destination? Do they make you immune to extradition treaties? Do they do anything that a suitcase of gold bricks won’t already do? wait is your argument actually “what purpose does bitcoin serve if you’re a jew in nazi germany? might as well just roll over and use deutschemark?” how much more ridiculous will you get? my financial assets being in my full control, even under nazi regime, is way better than being reliant on that regime. > Irrelevant nitpicking, the end result is the same that is just your opinion which entirely depends on your understanding of what “regulating bitcoin” means. > I do know history, and those currency collapses are not the only scenario where money supply increases. And you can have the opposite problem, where currency increases too much in value and disrupts the economy. and governments are free to figure out other fiscal levers, they are even free to make their own currencies - i’m not claiming bitcoin is somehow going to replace them. bitcoin is a hedge against incompetent governments. > I care about the practical value of what I can do with my money i do to. fiat money gives me some practical value. bitcoin gives me some more practical value. i use both. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/800 "2021-04-15T18:55:02Z")
> [@Arkhis](#): > > bitcoin is a hedge against incompetent governments. Bitcoin will not save you. It is a hedge that works like a firewall on computer against someone from government entering your house to kidnap your wife and kids. Governments use force and deceit to make people comply. I dont think anything can save you from that, only emigration, if your government is really bad. Starting life somewhere else. Like the situation in Venezuela. People escaping from country. ---
**Author:** ![Arkhis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arkhis/32/374354_2.png) [@Arkhis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arkhis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/801 "2021-04-15T19:05:24Z")
sounds like pretty competent government. of course bitcoin won’t save you from the knock on the door, nothing can. i only meant financial and economic incompetency, debasement of currency, hyperinflation, etc. bitcoin is a hedge against that. and even if somebody knocks on your door - you still can claim you don’t have any bitcoin and just keep those 12 words to yourself, though of course you better be out of that country before it gets this oppressive. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/802 "2021-04-15T19:16:00Z")
> [@Arkhis](#): > > of course you better be out of that country before it gets this oppressive Especially when they can even confiscate properties like homes or land. There is just no protection against incompetency beside people being more educated and knowing that money doesnt grow on trees, or on computers. Monetary policy is what people should really know about. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/803 "2021-04-15T19:39:29Z")
What are you guys even talking about? There is only one planet. Where are you going to flee to? ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/804 "2021-04-15T19:45:15Z")
I suspect, when one has to flee, one doesn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/805 "2021-04-15T23:36:56Z")
ty for that laugh! 😜 ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/806 "2021-04-15T23:39:13Z")
Off grid… …where they don’t have computers… ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/807 "2021-04-15T23:39:43Z")
Bitcoin is difficult to convert into potatoes in the Bolivian highlands. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/808 "2021-04-16T00:46:26Z")
> [@Arkhis](#): > > what’s the issue here? The issue is that you claimed to be a bitcoin fanboy because it lets you “control your money”, then promptly conceded that to actually do anything with bitcoin you have to submit to the mainstream financial system where other people control your money. It’s not a “gotcha”, it’s you having an argument that doesn’t match reality. > wait is your argument actually “what purpose does bitcoin serve if you’re a jew in nazi germany? might as well just roll over and use deutschemark?” how much more ridiculous will you get? my financial assets being in my full control, even under nazi regime, is way better than being reliant on that regime. Except, again, you don’t have full control. You have to convert that gold back into normal currency and then spend it just like everyone else. And being able to transport your assets with 12 words doesn’t help you when any government that wants to keep you from leaving with your assets can just refuse to let you leave at all. > that is just your opinion which entirely depends on your understanding of what “regulating bitcoin” means. I, and every non-fanboy, mean passing laws that regulate the use of bitcoin. I don’t care about abstract philosophical questions about whether the law is technically regulating bitcoin itself when the end result is the same. > and governments are free to figure out other fiscal levers Oh really? So let’s say you have a mortgage on your house in bitcoin: 10 BTC owed to the bank. Bitcoin does what the fanboys hope and keeps increasing in value, meaning the amount you owe to the bank keeps increasing relative to the salary (paid in normal currency) that you earn and you keep falling deeper and deeper into debt. Eventually you declare bankruptcy and lose everything. This is why governments want _stability_ for their currency, not runaway increases in value. And having the ability to control the money supply in both directions is essential. ---
**Author:** ![Arkhis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arkhis/32/374354_2.png) [@Arkhis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arkhis)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2021, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/809 "2021-04-16T06:13:49Z")
> conceded that to actually do anything with bitcoin you have to submit to the mainstream financial system in a hypothetical situation where bitcoin usage is severely restricted by government - yeah, i’ll use exchange convert as much as i need to get local currency. how is that not being in control of my bitcoin? you’re not making sense. > Except, again, you don’t have full control right, so your only real argument indeed is that in a hypothetical nazi germany your ability to have control over your finances is very limited. and how exactly is it a problem of bitcoin? again, nonsense. > laws that regulate the use of bitcoin if that’s all that you mean by being under jurisdiction then i got no problem with that. when i said bitcoin is not under any jurisdiction i meant no government without significant effort can control bitcoin itself, which is why i like it. > So let’s say you have a mortgage on your house in bitcoin: 10 BTC owed to the bank. are you under the impression that BTC is going to replace all money? you’re the biggest bitcoin fanboy i met so far! seriously though there are so many dumb assumptions in your scenario, i don’t even want to engage. i’ll just say that you’re free to not take loans in BTC and i recommend that you don’t. > governments want _stability_ for their currency, not runaway increases in value. And having the ability to control the money supply in both directions is essential this is why governments make their own currencies and they will continue to do so. what does this have to do with bitcoin? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275.md?page=31) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275.md?page=33)