# Why didnt u sell on top? šŸ“‰ **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 15, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275 "2021-01-15T18:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1383 "2021-06-19T13:34:18Z")
There is an option to convert it to Bitcoin, though the amount of Cardano is rather small compared with I guess what others are doing with Crypto these days. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1384 "2021-06-19T13:37:23Z")
Starting with very small amounts is the best thing you can do. Never invest money you canā€™t afford to lose. Basically do what you do in EVE, always expect to get ganked šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1385 "2021-06-19T14:30:35Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Bitcoin has actual use, maybe not for you, but clearly for a lot of other people, including a whole country where it is now legal tender. It therefor canā€™t be a ā€œgreater foolā€ scheme. Sure it can, anything is subject to the greater fool theory, [Greater Fool Theory: What It Means in Investing, With Examples](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/greaterfooltheory.asp) > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > A greater fools scheme has no effective use case, Bitcoin has. Itā€™s a store of value A store of value does not loose half its value in a three month time span. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > If any money or asset we have has intrinsic value, itā€™s actually Bitcoin, as it is directly liked to energy burned to secure it. Nonsense. Price has nothing to do with cost. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Starting with very small amounts is the best thing you can do. Never invest money you canā€™t afford to lose. Basically do what you do in EVE, always expect to get ganked That is the one thing upon which we can all agree. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1386 "2021-06-19T16:01:58Z")
> [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > Sure it can, anything is subject to the greater fool theory, [Greater Fool Theory Definition](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/greaterfooltheory.asp) A greater fool scheme will collapse once there are no longer new users entering the system because it has no actual use. Bitcoin will not collapse if no new users enter the system as itā€™s main function is a store of value and money and not a speculative asset. The price would probably stabilize though. > [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > A store of value does not loose half its value in a three month time span. That would also disqualify Gold as a store of value then ![screen](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/8/a/78a09802ee287bd9d31e34644337ba504b588c3a.png) Thatā€™s a monthly graph. Are we having a honest discussion here? > [@Adunh\_Slavy](#): > > Nonsense. Price has nothing to do with cost. All I said is that Bitcoin is linked to physical resources. It requires energy to mine them. Compared to fiat money which is just created out of thin air. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1387 "2021-06-19T22:42:52Z")
The store of value are bonds. That is why banks are buying them. They pay interest without storage cost. They have guaranteed interest rates. Lending to a government is deemed risk free lending. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1388 "2021-06-20T09:28:29Z")
---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1389 "2021-06-20T10:48:41Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > The store of value are bonds. That is why banks are buying them. They pay interest without storage cost. They have guaranteed interest rates. Lending to a government is deemed risk free lending. Itā€™s not risk free. Governments can collapse and currencies can lose itā€™s value. Even now you will not get enough interest from bonds to even cover for inflation. And if they continue to print money if will just hyper-inflate your ā€œrisk freeā€ bond away. The dollar may be more stable in short term, but an actual store of value like Gold or even better Bitcoin will protect your wealth over the long term, and that is what actually matters. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1390 "2021-06-20T11:29:18Z")
I have butterflies so I swapped it then waited a little then sold but looking for a new entry point. /edit back on the bitcoin rocket ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1391 "2021-06-20T11:47:35Z")
Collapse of bitcoin is sure thing. Collapse of government (also depends what governement and how it collapses) is probable but very unlikely. Cryptos and gold dont hold a candle because of the volatile nature of them, and speculative values. > **[The Better Inflation Hedge: Gold or Treasuries?](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/092514/better-inflation-hedge-gold-or-treasuries.asp)** > > Owning gold may not be the best option for hedging against inflation. What else, then? Try treasuries or gold ETFs. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1392 "2021-06-20T12:05:15Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Collapse of bitcoin is sure thing. Well I disagree. The young people see crypto and Bitcoin in a completely different light as they are all Internet natives. The more the boomers die off and the more Millennial and Gen Z come to power, the better for crypto and Bitcoin. I donā€™t see it collapse anytime soon, on the contrary, itā€™s getting ready to take over. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Collapse of government (also depends what governement and how it collapses) is probable but very unlikely. There are many even conservative people in the financial industry that finally see and warn about a possible hyperinflation. And the US is not the most stable country, it is deeply divided. I hope they get it back together, but the risk is quite real. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Cryptos and gold dont hold a candle because of the volatile nature of them, and speculative values. Gold isnā€™t that volatile anymore. Not since it had itā€™s run-up back in the 70ā€™ 80ā€™, the phase that is happening to Bitcoin right now. But short term volatility is completely meaningless, if you try to preserve value over a long period of time. Gold has itā€™s issues obviously (difficult to store, transport, verify, transact with), but they are mostly addressed by Bitcoin, which is why I think itā€™s just better in almost any regard than Gold. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1393 "2021-06-20T12:15:06Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > The young people see crypto and Bitcoin in a completely different light as they are all Internet natives. So what are different inexperienced people thinking? Should you really depend and take directions counting on their opinions? Or opinions of people that create them and premine them? > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Gold isnā€™t that volatile anymore. Depends what timescale you apply. And you are not guaranteed it will hold any value higher than what you buy it for. Sometimes you would want to bail out before its too late, like with bitcoin. Also storing costs, taxes. It makes very strangely volatile investment, despite what is shilled. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1394 "2021-06-20T12:42:42Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > So what are different inexperienced people thinking? Should you really depend and take directions counting on their opinions? Itā€™s not about inexperience but about the prejudice the current ruling generations has to changes that involves technologies they donā€™t understand. We still have rulers that donā€™t even use the internet or email. That is changing, and with it the resistance against Bitcoin. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Or opinions of people that create them and premine them? You should make your own decisions by actually looking into the technology and start to use it. Then you will see how the projects differ, why some may become a global money like Bitcoin (not premined, no plutocratic consensus algo, truly decentralized, censorship resistant and free) and some not (most other crypto projects). All you do now is repeat the opinion of others who also didnā€™t look at the tech and just judge it from afar, bash it because it is new, unfamiliar and scary. The exact same thing happened with the internet not so long ago, it was also useless, only for criminals etc. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Depends what timescale you apply. And you are not guaranteed it will hold any value higher than what you buy it for. Sometimes you would want to bail out before its too late, like with bitcoin. Also storing costs, taxes. It makes very strangely volatile investment, despite what is shilled. If you donā€™t FOMO in at the top you are fine. I buy when it is boring an no one is talking about it, like most of the time. Now also seems to be a good time, at least I started buying again (stopped in december) as long as its on this levels 30-50k. Iā€™m more scared if it goes up at an insane rate than when it drops. I donā€™t mind if it goes lower, I donā€™t plan to sell, as I just donā€™t see anything better I could invest that money in anyway. Just stacking more Sats ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1395 "2021-06-20T15:10:04Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > money like Bitcoin (not premined, no plutocratic consensus algo, truly decentralized, censorship resistant and free) and some not (most other crypto projects). Basically everything about Bitcoin is a corruption of the original idea, and crypto exchanges with tether are the ones that corrupted it the most. But if not for them the Bitcoin would be worth nothing now. I have read even Bitcoin was premined. 700 Bitcoins. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1396 "2021-06-20T19:36:27Z")
---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1397 "2021-06-20T19:46:44Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > thereā€™s not a single use case for blockchain technology that is superior to readily available alternatives in any way. I donā€™t know about thatā€¦ it seems pretty good for money laundering and for receiving extortion payments. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1398 "2021-06-20T21:12:09Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Basically everything about Bitcoin is a corruption of the original idea, and crypto exchanges with tether are the ones that corrupted it the most. But if not for them the Bitcoin would be worth nothing now. Tether isnā€™t on Bitcoin, that is something completely different. You donā€™t have to use exchanges. I for example get my Bitcoin as part of my salary, I donā€™t care about exchanges. The only reason Tether exists is because the banks make it super complicated to move dollars around. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > I have read even Bitcoin was premined. 700 Bitcoins. No. There are 50 Bitcoins in the genesis block as a block reward, like there are in every other block until the first halfing. Those 50 Bitcoins are not even spendable. But that block was mined just as every other block in the whole history of Bitcoin. You donā€™t have to believe me, you can directly look at the blockchain and check. Itā€™s all there in the open. Thatā€™s the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1399 "2021-06-20T22:40:04Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > The only reason Tether exists is because the banks make it super complicated to move dollars around. So people exchange dollars for tether that never covered all the money people pay for it. I am sure you would blame banks for that, and not tether operator, together with the exchange. Without all that, bitcoin is dead. With all of that, it goes for a bit longer, making buck for some peopleā€¦ > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > You donā€™t have to believe me, you can directly look at the blockchain and check. Itā€™s all there in the open. Thatā€™s the whole point. Maybe someone was mistaking the terms. There are signals Satoshi mined it in beginning, Well just after release. > **[How many Bitcoin does its inventor Satoshi Nakamoto still own? - Decrypt](https://decrypt.co/34810/how-many-bitcoin-does-its-inventor-satoshi-nakamoto-still-own)** > > Satoshi's massive stash indicates a careful and benevolent designer. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1400 "2021-06-20T23:07:58Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > So people exchange dollars for tether that never covered all the money people pay for it. I am sure you would blame banks for that, and not tether operator, together with the exchange. Tether and exchanges are both centralized run by companies. Bitcoin does not need them. if anything, they need Bitcoin > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Without all that, bitcoin is dead. With all of that, it goes for a bit longer, making buck for some peopleā€¦ You have that completely backwards. While those are participants in the Bitcoin network and do business with this decentralized currency, they are as vital to Bitcoin as some online shop is to the internet. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Maybe someone was mistaking the terms. There are signals Satoshi mined it in beginning, Well just after release. Satoshi was the first to mine in the beginning and then others joined. That is not the same as pre-mining, just that they where early participant in an experiment no one knew at the time where this would go. Bitcoin was completely worthless back then. This is completely different to a pre-mine where a big junk of the overall supply is already allocated to certain people like it is the case for almost all crypto currencies that came after Bitcoin. They are all more like products by a company. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1401 "2021-06-21T07:41:18Z")
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**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275/1402 "2021-06-21T12:57:34Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > A greater fool scheme The idea of ā€œgreater foolā€ is a ā€˜theoryā€™ ā€¦ even though theory is not the best word either ā€¦ it describes a market behavior, aka FOMO, fear of missing out. Greater fool and FOMO are siblings. Itā€™s not a scheme. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > That would also disqualify Gold as a store of value then And what was happening around then? Inflation and Volker getting a handle on it by allowing interest rates to rise to the market level, which was well telegraphed. This was also less than 10 years after Nixon ended Breton Woods, gold was $35 an ounce at that time. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > All I said is that Bitcoin is linked to physical resources. It requires energy to mine them. Yes, but what it costs to produce something has no bearing upon what someone will be willing to pay for it. Youā€™re making the very same error Marxist economists make with their labor theory of value - A type of thinking that is diametrically opposed to the ā€˜independentā€™ portion of the bitcoin story. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275.md?page=56) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-didnt-u-sell-on-top/290275.md?page=58)