# Why Do I Suck So Bad at PvP? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 18, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039 "2019-12-18T03:59:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/41 "2019-12-18T20:16:26Z")
> [@Karynn\_Denton](#): > > How much success have _ **you personally** _ had with this? Its a stupid question. What I’ve suggested is literally a standard kit. Are you suggesting theres somethin better to a brawler-tackle than that? You’re asking for anecdotes to back up commonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/42 "2019-12-18T20:18:10Z")
Let me be more clear. You’ve got a prop, make it an AB. You’ve got extra highs, make it neuts, you’ve got extra drone hold, make it ecm or at worst, sw. ---
**Author:** ![Karynn\_Denton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karynn_denton/32/468090_2.png) [@Karynn\_Denton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karynn_Denton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/43 "2019-12-18T20:21:03Z")
So no personal experience of the advice you’re offering then? I take it your refering to a Tristan fit? I wouldn’t be using ECM drones. I’d want to learn how to win, not how to run away. Why would I care about losing a T1 frigate? ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/44 "2019-12-18T20:23:55Z")
> [@Karynn\_Denton](#): > > I take it your refering to a Tristan fit? I have personal experience flying the exact fit recommended. It’s one of the best for low cost and low sp while keeping dps above 200 and able to tank gate guns. A Tristan is a frig so no. You cant pvp in Low sec in a tristan but you can survive if not tackled. that’s about it. You can fleet I suppose. You probably shouldnt start pvp-ing in less than a cruiser. You wont have enough meta/skills or good fits to make frigs work and you wont be able to do much better in a destroyer which is very niche. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/45 "2019-12-18T20:24:26Z")
> [@Karynn\_Denton](#): > > Why would I care about losing a T1 frigate You wont win in a t1 frig at all unless you land on top of another t1 frig… ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/46 "2019-12-18T20:27:20Z")
I’d say think of it this way. You need a hull that allows you leniency for lack of isk and lack of sp. For entry level… A frig is cheap, but needs a lot of SP to be competitive. A bc or bs is too expensive. So a cruiser should be the best entry level. Easier to fit and lower in cost. ---
**Author:** ![Karynn\_Denton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karynn_denton/32/468090_2.png) [@Karynn\_Denton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karynn_Denton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/47 "2019-12-18T20:29:47Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > I have personal experience flying the exact fit recommended. It’s one of the best for low cost and low sp while keeping dps above 200 and able to tank gate guns. What ship are you referring to then? Can you post the whole fit, please? > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > A Tristan is a frig so no. You cant pvp in Low sec in a tristan but you can survive if not tackled. that’s about it. You can fleet I suppose. > > You probably shouldnt start pvp-ing in less than a cruiser. You wont have enough meta/skills or good fits to make frigs work and you wont be able to do much better in a destroyer which is very niche. Myself and no doubt thousands of EVE players learned to PvP in frigates. I think we can safely dismiss this as nonsense. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > You wont win in a t1 frig at all unless you land on top of another t1 frig… Dozens of my kills are all lies! 😲 ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/48 "2019-12-18T20:30:46Z")
> [@Karynn\_Denton](#): > > What ship are you referring to then? Can you post the whole fit, please? I could private message it to you I suppose. I dont like to share much. Not at least until I figure our Scoots alts lol. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/49 "2019-12-18T20:31:28Z")
> [@Karynn\_Denton](#): > > Dozens of my kills are all lies! I’d have to review why you’re succeeding to comment. My best guess is you’re in FW space that attracts every idiot imaginable to pounce on. Dunno maybe you get super creative and yellow bait competively. I’ve seen amazing yellow baiters ---
**Author:** ![Karynn\_Denton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karynn_denton/32/468090_2.png) [@Karynn\_Denton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karynn_Denton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/50 "2019-12-18T20:31:50Z")
Well that won’t really help the OP or anyone else reading who might be looking for advice. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/51 "2019-12-18T20:33:16Z")
> [@Karynn\_Denton](#): > > Well that won’t really help the OP or anyone else reading who might be looking for advice They can always message me. I get interesting ones 😛 I fully expect Scoots stalks the night for my alts. He cant possibly be such a loser to only hide in Null all day ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/52 "2019-12-18T20:35:27Z")
Generally speaking find a cruiser or faction cruise and try and fit it normal then fill the gaps with your escapestry tools. Escapistry are: AB for distance, neuts to chew up their cap, and ecm/sw to break point by target or distance. Fiddling with fits is easier when you know what to go for. That’s the tool kit. Play with it. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/53 "2019-12-18T22:51:54Z")
This is exactly what I mean in regards of forum warriors who don’t know what they’re talking about. 😉 In my experience though, just fitting up a bunch of T1 ships, pick your favorite really, and just go lose a bunch. I’ve personally gone around nullsec roaming in several ship hulls. One of my favorite hulls is the Algos, and I did a lot of roaming in October and November of 2017 with this hull. > **[Scoots Choco | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/94346995/ship/32872/losses/)** > > Scoots Choco: 2,409 ships destroyed and 1,032 ships lost. I’ve also recently been in a Dominix binge with the new filaments that take you to random nullsec systems. > **[Scoots Choco | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/94346995/ship/645/losses/)** > > Scoots Choco: 2,409 ships destroyed and 1,032 ships lost. But I understand a the fully fit Battleship may be a bit too expensive. So you can always start with something cheap. One of my favorite T1 Frigate Hulls is the Breacher > **[Scoots Choco | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/94346995/ship/598/losses/)** > > Scoots Choco: 2,409 ships destroyed and 1,032 ships lost. Don’t underestimate the Breacher! > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > You wont win in a t1 frig at all unless you land on top of another t1 frig > **[Hecate | Enigma SoulAdmn | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/69244134/)** > > Enigma SoulAdmn (Fuxi Legion) lost their Hecate in OSY-UD (Curse) Total Value: 55,311,679.05 ISK > **[Garmur | Shang Aman Tsung | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/69244109/)** > > Shang Aman Tsung (Sequent Industry) lost their Garmur in OSY-UD (Curse) Total Value: 83,751,916.19 ISK > **[Imperial Navy Slicer | Cpt Mintaa | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/68772877/)** > > Cpt Mintaa (CBC Interstellar) lost their Imperial Navy Slicer in A1-AUH (Esoteria) Total Value: 34,832,072.21 ISK > **[Republic Fleet Firetail | Zarakik | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/68240044/)** > > Zarakik (Discoverings) lost their Republic Fleet Firetail in JD-TYH (Esoteria) Total Value: 22,122,786.58 ISK The most important thing is to just dedicate the time to go out there. Make mistakes, get in silly losses, dont listen to anything Alistair talks about because he’s never actually PvP’d before, and have fun. The Afterburner version of the Dual Rep fit for the Breacher looks like this: [Breacher | Scoots Choco | Killmail | zKillboard](https://zkillboard.com/kill/80507288/) and comes out to a little under 30m. Good luck, OP. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/54 "2019-12-18T22:58:21Z")
If there’s one thing Scoots is good at, it’s talking about how good Scoots is at everything. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/55 "2019-12-18T23:05:13Z")
The cool thing about killboards is that they provide verifiable proof, you know facts. ---
**Author:** ![Compo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/compo/32/167680_2.png) [@Compo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Compo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/56 "2019-12-18T23:15:58Z")
![sarcasm2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/f/6f36795b9a1bb28c38f1c784cb91175062e04a58.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/57 "2019-12-18T23:17:14Z")
I didn’t claim that. At best, I’m a casual pvper who only does so when he’s got the time to spare. Feel free to check the solo page of my killboards for my fits and losses, though. Whatever “skill” I have I’ve gained over many months of getting into dumb fights, getting bobbed, and learning from my mistakes. It’s easy to be an armchair general. It’s another story to actually put yourself out there. ---
**Author:** ![Thorian\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thorian_kell/32/306693_2.png) [@Thorian\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thorian_Kell)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/58 "2019-12-19T00:10:14Z")
Been reading through all the replies. I appreciate the helpful tips from many of you and I will use them. Thank you. My primary concern with EvE at the moment is solo PvE. I have no interests yet in joining a corp though in the future I may change my mind about that. I enjoy lowsec PvE more than highsec (_though I spend much more time in the latter_), both for the added challenge and lucrativeness. However, when confronted with PvP my strategy is to either run or die. I’ve already learned the value of the Overview, Local, and D-Scan and keeping an eye out for combat probes in particular. But the gate camping is what is frustrating. It’s just cheap IMO, though I appreciate that gate camping is part of the game and I accept that. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/59 "2019-12-19T00:20:09Z")
Being defeated in a sandbox game where there is no concept of 1v1 balance doesn’t mean you suck. Join a corp. Experience matters, numbers matter more 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039/60 "2019-12-19T00:27:17Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > CCP has no idea how to design PvP with any sort of growth path. But its very simple idea, you have to put matching systems for players + rankings. As skills and isk factor is the major things in that, It could be balanced around those. Like in what I wrote in this thread. FW being the best place to do that I think. But maybe high sec tournaments would actually have more attendants. 🤔 If CCP wouldnt be so busy adding gambling, they could have already done something in this direction, to have functioning PvP ranking system with matchmaking. Working in a set of complexes designed around the tournament experiences. Also being tutored there thru these PvP mechanics players use would be good addition. Starting from baby steps. Being user friendly. But they have chosen the bad path for development that leads towards constant decrease in users. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-i-suck-so-bad-at-pvp/207039.md?page=4)