# Why do we have Armor and Hull? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356 "2017-12-30T20:50:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/22 "2017-12-31T09:01:35Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > For everything else there is duct tape. But only if you fly Winmatar ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/23 "2017-12-31T09:09:28Z")
Shield tankers: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/410f36c24bf78d1f43bce31b8ef14a6528e2905f.png) Armor tankers: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/c/6c24853ba1cc045107e761a7e3574ce4e21662b9.jpg) Hull tankers: ![surrounded](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/c/3c68a8542c5de2a744329fe226a879ce3d477232.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/24 "2017-12-31T09:20:39Z")
I think CCP has designed tank mechanics very well, far better than weapon mechanics. Speed tanking is a bit disappointing, especially on Minnie ships (whos design feature it is), but that might be my bias speaking. Especially as “going faster” basically wrecks your own projectile tracking. Sig tanking also scales very poorly on ships that already have smaller sigs. ---
**Author:** ![Kynami\_Vaille](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kynami_vaille/32/229160_2.png) [@Kynami\_Vaille](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kynami_Vaille)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/25 "2017-12-31T17:55:34Z")
Speed tank is great ■■■■ for missile and/or drone boats. Tracking is not an issue there when using those weapon systems for your own damage application. Minnie have plenty of missile boats with which to use that tanking strategy. Remember the days of the old Nano-phoon? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/26 "2017-12-31T18:02:45Z")
> [@Kynami\_Vaille](#): > > racking is not an issue there when using those weapon systems for your own damage application. Minnie have plenty of missile boats with which to use that tanking strategy. Minnies are schizophrenic like that. The missile ships generally have the same speed stats, whereas the projectile ones still screw their own tracking the faster they move. ---
**Author:** ![Nikea\_Tiber](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nikea_tiber/32/134445_2.png) [@Nikea\_Tiber](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nikea_Tiber)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/27 "2017-12-31T18:51:27Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Speed tanking is a bit disappointing, especially on Minnie ships (whos design feature it is), but that might be my bias speaking. Especially as “going faster” basically wrecks your own projectile tracking. You can’t expect to do much damage with turrets when you are moving at high speed without manually piloting. Motion prediction V and at least a 3% tracking hardwiring (I rarely undock without a 5%) are mandatory if you are flying a fast gunboat. Tackle mods don’t have tracking, so at least you’ve got that going for you. I’ll agree that the tracking:range ratio of autocannons is a bit weak, though. Look at the bonuses on the loki projectile sub, they are insane to compensate for the general weakness of ACs. Some ships are pretty damn strong when hull HP rigged, DCd, and fit for gank- most notably gallente navy ships. Leaves mids for tackle and propulsion, lows for damage and application. People get pretty confident when they watch your shield and armor drop so fast. With a bit of discretion, citadel tethering makes hull tanking even better now. ---
**Author:** ![Sebs\_Pride](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sebs_pride/32/181192_2.png) [@Sebs\_Pride](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sebs_Pride)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/28 "2017-12-31T19:38:17Z")
We must partition to air-tank our pods. ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/29 "2017-12-31T19:44:03Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/6/d6fe830c6b4f9dd24b034f1a3c153791b58940a0.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Abyss\_Azizora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abyss_azizora/32/15938_2.png) [@Abyss\_Azizora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abyss_Azizora)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/30 "2018-01-01T01:53:17Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Nah the ship is the pod. > > Everything else is pod armour. > > I dont need messy air in my podgoo. Here is the real question though, if the entire ship is controled by the pod, and there is no crew… Why the hell do ships have so many damn windows? I get there are ships with npc crews, but windows in a pod controled ship just lower the armor and hull values. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Quelza](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quelza/32/36089_2.png) [@Quelza](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quelza)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/31 "2018-01-01T02:02:45Z")
Primarily because the ships are repurposed Empire designs, with the main differences being the installatation of the capsule interfaces. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/32 "2018-01-01T10:33:48Z")
I guess all that screaming and hammering on my pod hull when I eject is just escaping air. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/33 "2018-01-01T10:57:29Z")
> [@Nikea\_Tiber](#): > > Tackle mods don’t have tracking, so at least you’ve got that going for you. Yeah, but on the other hand a single web pretty much hard-counters a speed/sig tank, entirely. As you point out, speed/sig tanking is largely a matter of manual piloting + the manual piloting to keep guns on the target without wrecking your own tracking in the process. Double-edged sword. Again, might just be my minnie bias, but I wish they had just a smidgeon more speed/smaller sig. ---
**Author:** ![BeforetheStorm90](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beforethestorm90/32/38976_2.png) [@BeforetheStorm90](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BeforetheStorm90)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/34 "2018-01-01T14:23:42Z")
Did you really just call buffer tank, the basis of 90% of serious mid to large fleet doctrines a joke defense? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/35 "2018-01-01T16:32:31Z")
> [@BeforetheStorm90](#): > > Did you really just call buffer tank, the basis of 90% of serious mid to large fleet doctrines a joke defense? She said unless supported by logi. ---
**Author:** ![Rexxar\_Santaro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rexxar_santaro/32/420075_2.png) [@Rexxar\_Santaro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rexxar_Santaro)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/36 "2018-01-01T17:03:36Z")
> [@abdo\_Arji](#): > > I was wondering why do we have both Hull and Armor Strange question? Capsuleer capsules can’t fly in a soap bubble. Without any sexy inclinations here’s the diffirences: **- Shield tanking** ![rms15_aps_hero_image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/e/2ef821acc219d5fade8037e76a35ef9d91073d96.jpg) > An active protection system is a system (usually for a military application) designed to prevent line-of-sight guided anti-tank missiles/projectiles from acquiring and/or destroying a target. > Electronic countermeasures that alter the electromagnetic, acoustic or other signature(s) of a target thereby altering the tracking and sensing behavior of an incoming threat (e.g., guided missile) are designated soft-kill measures. > Measures that physically counterattack an incoming threat thereby destroying/altering its payload/warhead in such a way that the intended effect on the target is severely impeded are designated hard-kill measures. **- Armor tanking** ![johansson_t72_05](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/d/4d3af0ccc7292c56c5904f5c8ff3d8db437cda4a.jpg) **-Hull tanking** ![800px-Merkava-2-latrun-2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/3/c3f33c4e561ce0c61f0373c647d14d1f3d30b79a.jpg) Overall, this tanking EHP mechanic in EVE is well designed, including the Signature, Spider and Speed tanking. ---
**Author:** ![BeforetheStorm90](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beforethestorm90/32/38976_2.png) [@BeforetheStorm90](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BeforetheStorm90)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/37 "2018-01-02T03:46:23Z")
She mentions logi, but never says unless. Whole section is under the “joke” segment. Furthermore, there are numerous ships that are often fit with buffer that do not necessarily need logi. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/38 "2018-01-02T03:52:55Z")
Hull is your skeleton, armor is your muscles, shield is your skin. But the stronger your ball… err egg the stronger your hull. ---
**Author:** ![Kynami\_Vaille](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kynami_vaille/32/229160_2.png) [@Kynami\_Vaille](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kynami_Vaille)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/39 "2018-01-02T09:06:18Z")
Aye, shield regen fit passive tanks come to mind for PvE. Part of getting them to the point of being effective is the inclusion of multiple shield extenders which massively increases your buffer in addition to giving you the raw shield HP versus natural regen time for your hull to make a regen fit even work. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/40 "2018-01-02T09:30:13Z")
Ive always preferred active tanking for PvE. With buffer tanks you often end up just making it harder for yourself with a larger sig/slower speed, and not utilizing spare capacitor to your advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356/41 "2018-01-02T11:01:44Z")
> [@Abyss\_Azizora](#): > > Here is the real question though, if the entire ship is controled by the pod, and there is no crew… Why the hell do ships have so many damn windows? I get there are ships with npc crews, but windows in a pod controled ship just lower the armor and hull values. 😛 Slight off topic but our ships do actually have crew. The pod gives us about 2/3rds the crew numbers that a standard ship of the race would. Even a frigate will normally have some crew once it is fitted. An unfitted frigate ‘might’ have zero crew. As will a shuttle obviously. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-do-we-have-armor-and-hull/48356.md?page=3)