# Why does trade have to cough up all the isk sinks? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 19, 2019, 10:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394 "2019-10-19T10:55:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Wyld\_Oneko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wyld_oneko/32/165102_2.png) [@Wyld\_Oneko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wyld_Oneko)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/113 "2019-10-29T14:02:43Z")
I’m painfully new, but I noticed there’s no fees for storing items in station. Would that kind of thing play all merry Hell with things? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/114 "2019-10-29T14:15:12Z")
> [@Wyld\_Oneko](#): > > but I noticed there’s no fees for storing items in station There are many things you could slap a fee on, the main question is “what side effects would this have on game play?” Charging fees for items in station would lead to people trashing cheap items quickly for the minerals, or even jettisoning them before entering station, or other odd behaviours. It wouldn’t lead to “making interesting choices”, it would simply be an annoying inconvenience. On the other hand, you could have each station charge a daily ISK fee based on the total estimated value of all items you have stored in it. This would in effect equal a ‘ship and inventory maintenance fee’. The bigger and more expensive your ships, and the more value your inventory, the more you pay. In some ways this would be a ‘balanced’ fee because it would hit hardest those who obviously have the resources to pay the most. But while it would sink some ISK, it would also simply become another annoyance that means you have to grind even more and longer. Ideally you want to tune your ISK sinks and faucets two ways: Faucets so the game isn’t drenched in ISK (which is the current problem), and sinks so they are reasonably tied to activities such that the activity is still profitable and desirable, but that people who make the absolute most profit also pay the highest fees. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/115 "2019-10-29T15:13:51Z")
Anyway just vastly increase manufacturing fees and drop broker fees and sales tax. Something that doesn’t produce any value like the mere exchange of existing goods shouldn’t be the main taxable event. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/116 "2019-10-29T15:59:10Z")
> [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > Anyway just vastly increase manufacturing fees and drop broker fees and sales tax. Lol, you’ll make another thread in 2 months asking “Why do manufacturers have to cough up all the isk sinks?” How about nah. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/117 "2019-10-29T16:36:35Z")
> [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > Something that doesn’t produce any value like the mere exchange of existing goods shouldn’t be the main taxable event. “Something that doesn’t do anything useful except to put ISK in the pockets of players who are barely interacting with the rest of the game should be the main taxable event.” (FTFY) ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/118 "2019-10-29T16:41:03Z")
> Something that doesn’t do anything useful except to put ISK in the pockets of players who are barely interacting with the rest of the game should be the main taxable event.” Ah, so you mean ratting and mission running? Also if you think you would have the same goods available at good prices without traders you are just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/119 "2019-10-29T17:59:35Z")
You completely miss the point. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Ideally you want to tune your ISK sinks and faucets two ways: Faucets so the game isn’t drenched in ISK (which is the current problem), and sinks so they are reasonably tied to activities such that the activity is still profitable and desirable, but that people who make the absolute most profit also pay the highest fees. Not saying trade is bad or good. Not saying traders shouldn’t be trading or earning profit from it. Just pointing out that if your activity consists of essentially shuffling items from lower prices to higher prices and pocketing the ISK difference, and if this is one of the more profitable activities in EVE, then it simply makes sense for CCP to place an ISK sink on that process. It’s far more beneficial to have ISK sinks on trading activity than on production or resource acquisition, since that would actually limit the availability of items _required to play the game_. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/120 "2019-10-29T18:30:09Z")
> since that would actually limit the availability of items _required to play the game_ . Literally every sink does this, that’s the entire point. ---
**Author:** ![baloney](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baloney/32/157031_2.png) [@baloney](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/baloney)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/121 "2019-10-29T19:12:05Z")
> [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > Also if you think you would have the same goods available at good prices without traders you are just ignorant Please explain how a middle-man skimming profit off the margins provides “good prices.” ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/122 "2019-10-29T19:32:53Z")
Because by definition they put up a buy order that was higher than the next highest buy order and a sell order that was cheaper than the next cheapest sell order? Also margin trading isn’t the only type of trading. ---
**Author:** ![baloney](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baloney/32/157031_2.png) [@baloney](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/baloney)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/123 "2019-10-29T19:45:17Z")
So if every step of buying and selling a good incurs transaction taxes, would you say that middle-men such as traders incurring additional taxes into their profit scheme and then passing those costs onto the end consumer makes prices better or worse? ---
**Author:** ![Karol\_Godula](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karol_godula/32/391303_2.png) [@Karol\_Godula](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karol_Godula)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/124 "2019-10-29T20:17:58Z")
Maybe he doesn’t want line goons/test pockets with isk. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/125 "2019-10-29T23:57:41Z")
> [@baloney](#): > > So if every step of buying and selling a good incurs transaction taxes, would you say that middle-men such as traders incurring additional taxes into their profit scheme and then passing those costs onto the end consumer makes prices better or worse? You really don’t understand how margin trading works? Without margin traders buy orders and sell orders grow apart and you get bad deals when buying from sell orders and bad deals when selling to buy orders. Everyone would have to babysit their own buy and sell orders for ages to get decent prices, which is highly impractical if you go around shopping to fit a ship. ---
**Author:** ![baloney](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baloney/32/157031_2.png) [@baloney](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/baloney)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/126 "2019-10-30T00:35:42Z")
I get how it works. I’ve done some form of trading as long as I’ve played this game but I don’t delude myself into believing I’m providing a valuable service to the community rather than just happily ripping off my customers ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/127 "2019-10-30T01:49:46Z")
> [@Wyld\_Oneko](#): > > I’m painfully new, but I noticed there’s no fees for storing items in station. This got mentioned by CCP recently. ---
**Author:** ![baloney](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baloney/32/157031_2.png) [@baloney](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/baloney)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/129 "2019-10-30T20:34:47Z")
Nothing you’ve said in this thread gives me the idea that you understand what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Steak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_steak/32/168834_2.png) [@Ms\_Steak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ms_Steak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/130 "2019-10-30T21:11:37Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > On the other hand, you could have each station charge a daily ISK fee based on the total estimated value of all items you have stored in it. Imagine returning after a few years player that comes to negative wallet… ---
**Author:** ![Art\_Vandolay](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/art_vandolay/32/440208_2.png) [@Art\_Vandolay](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Art_Vandolay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/132 "2019-11-03T00:05:18Z")
Traders don’t pay extra taxes and broker fees, the pilots who buy our items bear those extra costs. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2019, 6:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/133 "2019-11-06T06:30:39Z")
Holy ■■■■ learn the difference between who bears the burden and who “writes the check”. Economic ignorance like this should burn so much it leaves a scar. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2019, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/134 "2019-11-06T06:31:31Z")
Tax incidence mother f\*\*\*\*\*\*s… Learn you it f\*\*\*\*s… > **[Tax incidence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence)** > > In economics, tax incidence or tax burden is the effect of a particular tax on the distribution of economic welfare. Economists distinguish between the entities who ultimately bear the tax burden and those on whom tax is initially imposed. The tax burden measures the true economic weight of the tax, measured by the difference between real incomes or utilities before and after imposing the tax. An individuality on whom the tax is levied does not have to bear the true size of the tax. For the examp... ■■■■… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394.md?page=7)