# Why does trade have to cough up all the isk sinks? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 19, 2019, 10:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394 "2019-10-19T10:55:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/158 "2020-01-10T20:11:09Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > The more sinks, the better in my eyes. Wouldn’t it be lovely if you actually had any rational backing for this rather than wild flailing. ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/159 "2020-01-10T20:17:36Z")
Simple, more sinks means more faucets can be added, which improves the quality of PVE in this game. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/160 "2020-01-10T20:26:36Z")
I already said sales tax should be higher to compensate, but losing up to 5% of an items value before any transaction ever has taken place is just dumb for the reasons I already stated. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/161 "2020-01-10T20:29:32Z")
Sinks and faucets are part of the reward/barrier structure of EVE. The payouts/drops from your various activities are your reward structure. The taxes/fees/skills you need to maximize reward are part of the barrier structure that you strive to overcome in order to achieve your desired reward goals. The mechanics of defeating the barriers and obtaining the rewards makes up more than half of game design. In many cases, EVE/CCP has gone far too generous in the ease of defeating barriers and gaining the rewards, and ends up with far too many simplistic, repetitive, grindy, bottable activities as a result. One significant reason you assign more sinks to taxes/fees/trading, is because the process is voluntary and predictable for all who engage in it. The manufacturer and trader can see their fees as they post items for trade, and adjust their prices to ensure their profit goals are met. Buyers see the prices listed and have the option to purchase at that price or seek elsewhere. Everyone has the ability to compete on efficiency against all the other buy/sell offers. Thus, the sinks work fairly for everyone and competition keeps them from spiralling out of control. It’s the most practical place for them. Indeed, EVE would have been significantly better off with a greatly increased fee structure, where higher taxes/fees on trade/bounties/processing/PI could have been offset by encouraging membership in and development of corporate benefits, or by ranking up play achievements that encourage people to actively play the game rather than endlessly repetitively grind it. CCP kinda shot EVE in the foot by making too many game-mechanic barriers easily overcome, too many reward structures easily farmed, and leaving the “hard parts” of the game to be such retention-failing issues as bad interface, non-intuitive design, a cannibalistic social structure and poor incentives to welcome new players into the game and develop them. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/162 "2020-01-10T20:33:47Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > We need more trade sinks, and MORE SINKS IN GENERAL. The more sinks, the better in my eyes. We need a large enough sink hole in which you fit. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/163 "2020-01-10T20:34:10Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > Simple, more sinks means more faucets can be added, which improves the quality of PVE in this game. No, ■■■■ off. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/164 "2020-01-10T20:35:22Z")
Manufacturing should be a major sink but is negligible now. ---
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/165 "2020-01-10T20:54:34Z")
That’s why you look for market citadels, I guess. My two trading chars move across regions. I’ve been searching for well positioned market-capable citadels with low > **[Updates to Sales Taxes & Brokers Fees | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/article/pvewgz/updates-to-sales-taxes-and-brokers-fees)** > > Take a look at this devblog for more information on changes to sales taxes and brokers fees that are coming to New Eden soon! Maybe they also want to incentivize people going to a citadel, which is exactly what I’m doing on my two trading accounts. I honestly don’t see your issue with this. It’s just the stations which are fixed. What’s the problem you’re actually having? ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/166 "2020-01-10T20:56:55Z")
Ridiculous broker fees of up to 5% before any goods have even been transferred. Higher transaction fee is fine, the broker fee is dumb and only leads to tedium. ---
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/167 "2020-01-10T20:57:38Z")
> [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > Higher transaction fee is fine, the broker fee is dumb and only leads to tedium. Sure, if you think so. vOv ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/168 "2020-01-10T21:51:12Z")
Except it doesn’t. More sinks either means end isk earning remains the same overall so increasing sinks is pointless or that wealth concentrates even faster in a few people’s hands… Oh wait… Now I understand. You want more faucets for you while everyone else will be the sinks. Just like you got newbies to pay for everything in your corp while you made the isk in profit… Now I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/169 "2020-01-11T09:56:08Z")
> Except it doesn’t. More sinks either means end isk earning remains the same overall so increasing sinks is pointless or that wealth concentrates even faster in a few people’s hands… > Oh wait… Now I understand. You want more faucets for you while everyone else will be the sinks. Just like you got newbies to pay for everything in your corp while you made the isk in profit… Now I understand. Whaaaaah he must scam whaaaaa. Lot’s of posters with that logic, doesn’t hold. For a healthy game, you want lots of faucets, and sinks, with the goal of wealth decreasing, so that you can make more and keep the game balanced and growing. ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/170 "2020-01-11T09:56:40Z")
> No, ■■■■ off. Nope, I’m here to stay, enjoy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/171 "2020-01-12T09:47:18Z")
I have made the suggestion to lower broker fees and raise transaction fees: > [@Lower brokers fees, raise transaction fees](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lower-brokers-fees-raise-transaction-fees/210916): > > A market order is not a transfer of goods, it is only a form of communication to the other party that you want to buy or sell something. It shouldn’t take up to 5%(!) to just say you want to buy it. All this does is make managing larger market orders a pain because if you first say you want to buy and the market changes you lose the extreme broker fees. It forces people to micro manage the same buy order into smaller chunks, which is tedious and ads nothing. Broker fee should only be to preven… ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/172 "2020-01-12T12:11:18Z")
> [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > Why is the tax so overwhelmingly put on trade? Why is something that produces no value, namely the mere exchange of already existing goods punished so hard? BOOHOO WALL STREET TEARS 😭 ---
**Author:** ![Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/antihrist_pripravnik/32/502236_2.png) [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Antihrist_Pripravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/173 "2020-01-12T20:04:49Z")
When there’s more ISK sinks than faucets, EVE’s economy turns into a badly managed third world country. Trust me, I live in one. By looking at the graphs from the original post I can see that the change is bringing the inflation down, which is a good thing. If the inflation keeps rising, then say hello to the new price of a Rifter: ![13260234_1088912071166681_5360791824065849679_n](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/e/4e4637e28ddd486b982db4fe0ec9d9162fe11cbd.jpeg) If the balance passes affect your profit, then simply either: - find a way around it (player owned stations are there, including a lot of them with low taxes and free access markets) - redo the math on your profit margins based on the new taxes and adapt your trading portfolio accordingly (the game has literally thousands of types of items, hundreds of ship types… simply find a new more profitable niche) - diversify into other activities apart from trading (there is no lack of different activities in this game, even for a casual player) You’ve said that manufacturing should be taxed more - which means that you probably think that manufacturers have an advantage over traders - which means that you should not be complaining, but rather should be switching to manufacturing, if you think that it’s not taxed enough. If you think that you profit margin is hurt and see an area of the game that looks to be more profitable, you can either complain about it or adapt. Your choice. My personal opinion: inflation just keeps rising in EVE over the years, not only because of the ISK sinks and faucets - but because some aspects of the game are and always will be more fun to do than others no matter what feature you add to the game or how you balance things. Impact on trader’s ability to pump up the prices even more for the end consumer should be limited and thus taxed. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/174 "2020-01-12T21:57:28Z")
> [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](#): > > My personal opinion: inflation just keeps rising in EVE over the years, Is wrong because inflation often doesn’t rise at all in EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/antihrist_pripravnik/32/502236_2.png) [@Antihrist\_Pripravnik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Antihrist_Pripravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/175 "2020-01-12T22:10:02Z")
Ok. You’re right. Inflation is fluctuating, but its always present. It’s the prices that are constantly rising, so here’s the fixed sentence: > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > My personal opinion: inflation just keeps rising **prices** in EVE over the years, 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/176 "2020-01-12T22:34:35Z")
It’s still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-does-trade-have-to-cough-up-all-the-isk-sinks/196394/177 "2020-01-12T23:18:32Z")
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