# Why Eve is not a PvP game **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** industrial, pve, pvp\ **Created:** [May 12, 2020, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538 "2020-05-12T09:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/364 "2020-05-17T10:08:46Z")
An original, provocative, well laid out thought that, whether right or wrong will no doubt be viciously attacked by the forum trolls for being an original, provocative, well laid out thought. I LIKE IT! ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/365 "2020-05-17T10:29:34Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Are you 2 evil twins who hate each other? šŸ’” > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > An original, provocative, well laid out thought that, whether right or wrong will no doubt be viciously attacked by the forum trolls for being an original, provocative, well laid out thought. I LIKE IT! I mean that speaks for itself really lol Inciderntly, how could it be provocative if it doesnā€™t provoke a reaction? ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/366 "2020-05-17T10:32:15Z")
Iā€™m not sure if I ā€˜getā€™ you. Thereā€™s 334 responses here as of this response Iā€™m writing, so obviously it provoked a reaction? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/367 "2020-05-17T10:38:28Z")
Yes, I agree. It was intended to provoke a reaction and it got one. I mean, pretty much every post is. But Im guessing you dont feel that the ones who agree with the premise are trolls, only the ones provoked into disagreeing? So if everyone who disagrees is by default a troll, it hasnt really provoked any disgreement? Or are trolls opinions actually to be counted? Edit: Im just messin around while the coffee kicks in. All good bro šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/369 "2020-05-17T10:57:46Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Edit: Im just messin around while the coffee kicks in. All good bro šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/370 "2020-05-17T18:35:07Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You mean when you got one person into EVE they were a Fortnite player like you and their parents wouldnā€™t let them pay for it. Gotcha. Well, at least youā€™re honest about being a useless troll. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/371 "2020-05-17T18:36:48Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Well, at least youā€™re honest about being a useless troll. ant that means that eve is a pvp game ---
**Author:** ![Sinead\_O\_Carroll](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sinead_o_carroll/32/205065_2.png) [@Sinead\_O\_Carroll](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sinead_O_Carroll)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/372 "2020-05-18T18:38:17Z")
> [@8 Golden Rules for EVE Online](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/8-golden-rules-for-eve-online/3973/1): > > Consent to PvP You consent to PvP when you click ā€œundockā€. Then, by your admission, the trader who never undocks from Jita isnā€™t doing PVP, because they havenā€™t undocked and therefore did not consent to PVP. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/373 "2020-05-18T20:39:23Z")
One does not exclude the other. ---
**Author:** ![Apo\_Lamperouge](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/apo_lamperouge/32/420136_2.png) [@Apo\_Lamperouge](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Apo_Lamperouge)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/374 "2020-05-19T11:47:21Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > you keep banging on about how everyone has to play your way or leave. but isnā€™t that what _you_ are doing? wahhhhh muh pve ships get ganked, no more pvp Jesus man do you not have anything better to do than keep smashing your head against this wall? we arenā€™t telling anyone how to play the game. we arenā€™t forcing ideas down anyoneā€™s throat. we see things as it is, as it was, and clearly what the game will be in the future. its a do whatever you want game, as long as you realize > [@8 Golden Rules for EVE Online](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/8-golden-rules-for-eve-online/3973): > > [image] These are based on [Akita Tā€™s Golden rules for new players](https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=588605), originally published on the old forums. Be able to afford a loss Never fly something (or with something in the cargo) you canā€™t afford to lose. Yes, not even in highsec. Meaning that you should not fly a ship you cannot afford to replace and refit. Consent to PvP You consent to PvP when you click ā€œundockā€. You are not safe in 1.0 security space. [CONCORD](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203208902-CONCORD) is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. In most caseā€¦ You play your way. go sit in Vaere with your corp members who are ganking noobs in Ventures. hmmmm kettle? meet pot. ---
**Author:** ![Aramatheia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aramatheia/32/383412_2.png) [@Aramatheia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aramatheia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/376 "2020-05-19T13:52:09Z")
yep, even pve in its simplest form can be pvp. go into a sansha hideaway and then someone else drops in and tries to kill the things faster. Its pvp by competing for the loot/payout/expeditons I fly a triple sebo phantasm with such a fast lock time that im pretty hard to beat, even on alpha. Only select missile ships have been able to outdo me (though that was back when i was single sebo, before i tweaked my fit). But i dont go locking for a contest. But iā€™ll give a challenger 1 heck of a test if they try to claim my sites! pvp without the blowing up players part ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/378 "2020-05-19T14:10:10Z")
I mean, its fairly obvious its an EvE game. Why this thread exists I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/379 "2020-05-19T15:08:58Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I mean, its fairly obvious its an EvE game. Obvious some people have trouble with basic definitions soā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/380 "2020-05-19T15:50:35Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sheā€™s among a number of people that want arena-style PvP over all else and attack any other playstyle. Stop lying. I have explicitly and frequently said that I am opposed to arena-style PvP and reject any proposal for it to exist. > Merin likes to ask why someone would pay just to PvE, yet seems to think people will pay to be the fodder of some neckbeardy incel ganker. No I donā€™t. I think people will pay, get ganked once or twice, and take it as a challenge to overcome. And then they wonā€™t get ganked anymore because avoiding ganks is not that hard. EVE wants the person who responds to being ganked by investing in Catalyst production, not the person who whines on the forum and ragequits because farming isnā€™t 100% safe. Also, nice job revealing your biases there. Too bad it has nothing to do with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Poor\_Sap](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/poor_sap/32/333206_2.png) [@Poor\_Sap](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Poor_Sap)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/382 "2020-05-19T17:59:50Z")
> [@Torg\_Jupiter](#): > > Eve is a harsh PvP game, and leaving the station equals consent to be killed. That is 100% accurate and true. > [@Torg\_Jupiter](#): > > Yes, mining is at the core of all eve activity, and all looking down on miners is juvenile at best Wrong! Eve is a PVP game. Miners just waste their time and serve as content for real players - PVPers. > [@Torg\_Jupiter](#): > > Iā€™m just here to play this game together with you. Then itā€™s a PVP game for you too. ---
**Author:** ![Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aeryn_maricadie/32/373550_2.png) [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aeryn_Maricadie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/383 "2020-05-19T18:26:18Z")
This is fundamentally wrong. Everything in this game in PvP, even afk highsec mining. The reason is because everything goes through the market. So even someone highsec mining affects other players the instant they bought the ship they used to mine with, let alone the ore they sell. Just because you are not pewing doesnā€™t meant you donā€™t affect the people that do. This is the big misunderstanding between ratters/miners/nullbears and pirates. Ratting/mining/and other nullbearing has an effect on every other player. Therefore there needs to be a way for other players to affect them back, not just letting them rat/mine/nullbear in safety. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/384 "2020-05-19T18:52:36Z")
> [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](#): > > Just because you are not pewing doesnā€™t meant you donā€™t affect the people that do this and if you are not pewing you are loosing because pewing is the second best thing in eve , the best is ofc stuff ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/385 "2020-05-19T22:54:20Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But then someone comes along and says ā€œoh but mining is competitive too so thatā€™s floogledigoo as wellā€, and the cycle repeats. If you are mining in X4 (for example) then that is PvE because at no point are you playing against another human. In EVE, while the direct act of mining is PvE, you are doing in an environment where you are playing against humans; therefor itā€™s PvP. A player in EVE could live in a WH killing AI only and never see a player for monthsā€¦still a PvP environment where the player is enjoying a PvE activity. ![eve](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/0/d010e4ea2722c279226129e81d4dc3025d890237.png) For EVE (above) no single playerā€¦itā€™s PvPā€¦ For X4 (below) no PvP, multiplayer or coop listed as you are ONLY against the programmingā€¦ ![x4](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/6/46736bed3f1af1985ba7ca2bf76706bc19553e78.png) ---
**Author:** ![Rekindle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rekindle/32/382332_2.png) [@Rekindle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rekindle)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/386 "2020-05-19T23:39:23Z")
everyone who is not capable of seeing the counter concept to eve is a pvp game is totally missing the point. but the fact that you miss the point makes my point. Of course eve is a pvp game. But its more than that and thatā€™s sad but most of you donā€™t get it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/387 "2020-05-19T23:40:25Z")
How is it ā€œmore than thatā€? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=13) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=15)