# Why Eve is not a PvP game **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pve, pvp, industrial\ **Created:** [May 12, 2020, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538 "2020-05-12T09:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/418 "2020-05-20T19:22:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sure, but in most cases in highsec if you can’t bump and can’t alpha the ship in a single volley, you’re probably not going to catch it. If I need to transport a high value BPO for example, you’ll never gank me. It’s simply not possible to do unless I fall asleep at a gate. It may not be profitable to sit at gates catching insta aligning frigates, which is why you don’t see it happen often. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/420 "2020-05-20T19:33:47Z")
the fact is with a fast frigate , interceptor , t3 destroyer , you are near 100% gate camp immune except in null , because of bubbles and smart bombs , i travel from arzad to jita with a bil in my lil ship cargo and no worries in my mind ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/421 "2020-05-20T19:39:33Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I haven’t suggested insta aligning frigates are. Then what are you suggesting to haul valuable BPOs through high sec? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/423 "2020-05-20T19:47:05Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Cloaky T3Cs are a pretty safe bet. Except they don’t insta warp and can be decloaked and caught. On the positive side, those T3Cs won’t die as easily to smartbombers. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/425 "2020-05-20T20:22:05Z")
I can’t even fly T3Cs at all, but I do know that cloaky ships get decloaked and caught regularly, especially when they’re not instantly aligning. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/427 "2020-05-20T21:03:09Z")
We’re still talking about ‘theoretically impossible to kill ships’ right? Cloaky ships do get caught sometimes and _can_ be killed by a good group even if they’re not just ‘floating at a gate’. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/429 "2020-05-20T21:05:12Z")
Same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/431 "2020-05-20T21:07:58Z")
We’re not talking about profitable ganks here. If someone wants to use their bling Loki to kill your ‘unkillable ship’ then your unkillable ship can be ganked. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/433 "2020-05-20T21:09:42Z")
Me too, pointless discussion. ---
**Author:** ![annoing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annoing/32/196083_2.png) [@annoing](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/annoing)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/435 "2020-05-20T22:25:12Z")
Wow, you have a far too high opinion of yourself, of your humour and your brains. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/436 "2020-05-20T23:04:30Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not though. Can exclusively do PvE in EVE without ever worrying about the possibility of other players? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again this comes down to whether or not you define the actual act of gathering ore from a rock to be PvE. You are excluding the possibility of being attacked by other players while mining…or having what your mining be out-mined by another player…or being bumped-off a rock…or having your hauler ganked…etc etc etc…In a SP game none of those can happen because it’s exclusively PvE. You keep mixing the immediate action for environment and this is wrong. The PvP/PvE definitions are about who you are competing against, not what you are doing. Mining in X4 and mining in EVE are mechanically the same thing…but one is PvP and the other is PvE. If you Google “difference between pvp and pve” you’ll see exactly what we’re talking about… CS2 online (match play) is PvP…exactly the same game but offline using trainer bots becomes PvE. It’s not the activity, it’s who you are playing against. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/437 "2020-05-21T01:16:59Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yeah but you still need to get the gank fleet there. It’s no good tacking a ship that will rapidly exit your effective range. I see. So now we’re moving the goalposts from “some ships are too well tanked to be gankable” to “some ships are fast enough that if you don’t web them you can’t pin them in place long enough for your fleet to arrive if they aren’t in position already”. My expectations of dishonesty from you are certainly met. > It’s only people like you I don’t get on with IOW, “everyone is welcome in EVE, except people I don’t like”. You are such a pathetic hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/438 "2020-05-21T07:27:02Z")
Wierd how all the folk he backs up vanish when he starts to argue black is white. ---
**Author:** ![Rekindle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rekindle/32/382332_2.png) [@Rekindle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rekindle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/439 "2020-05-21T09:18:41Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Is Lucas still not getting over the fact that EVE is a PvP game? Two weeks in and we have to get out the chalk and crayons to explain the dissenting view that there’s more to eve than ganking covetors or shooting freighters on the perimeter gate. Its not that hard a concept really. There’s more to Eve then just equating each interaction to the next cheap gank. THis is the part where you start hurling insults …go: ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/440 "2020-05-21T10:10:44Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > Two weeks in and we have to get out the chalk and crayons to explain the dissenting view that there’s more to eve than ganking covetors or shooting freighters on the perimeter gate. Indeed there is and most of it is PvP in one form or another. PvP being defined by Richard Bartle as “Player(s) Versus Player(s) (PvP). Players are opposed by other players in a game. In a combat situation, this means PCs can fight each other.” Opposition being the primary component of PvP, and combat situation being used as an example of PvP; not the sole form of it. For those unfamiliar with Richard Bartle, he’s one of the men responsible for the first MUD and has authored several books on the subject of virtual worlds, one of which is commonly regarded in the industry as the “bible of MMO design”. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/442 "2020-05-21T11:02:51Z")
Usual differentiator doesn’t mean the only differentiator. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/444 "2020-05-21T11:05:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > how to PvP properly What is proper PvP? ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/446 "2020-05-21T12:22:17Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > sitting in station chatting with m8s on coms who have had a hard day. You do realize that siting in station and chatting is all that is needed to scam people? I believe this qualifies as pvp… ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/447 "2020-05-21T12:43:31Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > THis is the part where you start hurling insults You mean like the “chalk and crayons” jab in your first sentence? ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/448 "2020-05-21T13:12:08Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > Its not that hard a concept really. There’s more to Eve then just equating each interaction to the next cheap gank. Yeah it isn’t that hard, yet you still don’t get it. It’s perfectly fine to have PvE activities in a PvP game. Look at it this way: All PvE activities are in the end just part of the overall multiplayer sandbox PvP cycle. They are part of the landscape that fuel the conflict and give it meaning. It’s important that we have it, but it isn’t a isolated playstyle on it’s own. > [@Rekindle](#): > > THis is the part where you start hurling insults …go: Where do I hurl insults? Looks like that is your specialty [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=17)