# Why Eve is not a PvP game **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** industrial, pve, pvp\ **Created:** [May 12, 2020, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538 "2020-05-12T09:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/41 "2020-05-12T14:20:10Z")
> [@Ahari\_Chent-Shi](#): > > We need a ship spinning leader board. I’ve forgotten more about ship spinning than you kids will ever know… /s ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/42 "2020-05-12T14:20:15Z")
> [@Tintallei\_Sharan](#): > > This sentence actually make a lot of sense. Except it does NOT help your arguments at all. Playing an RTS online against other players is absolutely PvP. > Resources management is the key to victory in a PvP RTS game. It would be an absolute non-sense to pretend that how you manage your Ressources in an RTS battle is “not PvP”, and that the PvP only occur when your soldiers are facing each other. It turns out that MMORTS is actually a thing, and Eve does actually fit most of the criteria. (An, admittedly cherry picked, extract from [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_real-time_strategy_game)) > The titles are often based in a [sci-fi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-fi) or [fantasy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy) universe and are distinguished from single or small-scale multiplayer RTSes by the number of players and common use of a persistent world, generally hosted by the game’s publisher, which continues to evolve even when the player is offline. > > Many MMORTSs feature living economies. Virtual items and currency have to be gained through play and have definite value for players.[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_real-time_strategy_game#cite_note-2) Such a [virtual economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy) can be analyzed (using data logged by the game) and has value in economic research. Which gives rise to the question of could Eve be considered to be an mmorts/rpg hybrid? ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/43 "2020-05-12T14:21:34Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > could Eve be considered to be an mmorts/rpg hybrid Ah, the well known MMORTRPSG genre. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/44 "2020-05-12T14:24:36Z")
lol yeah acronyms become alphabet soup when they get beyond a certain length. Rhetorical questions do have their uses, if nothing else it may spark some interesting discussion. ---
**Author:** ![you\_are\_evil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/you_are_evil/32/246754_2.png) [@you\_are\_evil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/you_are_evil)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/45 "2020-05-12T14:25:29Z")
> [@QuakeGod](#): > > The only activity in EVE that is not a form of PVP is Project Discovery… but but, i have more points than you!!! ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/46 "2020-05-12T14:26:00Z")
Everybody has more points than me; I’ve never actually looked at it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_are\_evil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/you_are_evil/32/246754_2.png) [@you\_are\_evil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/you_are_evil)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/47 "2020-05-12T14:28:57Z")
you weren’t meant either. 🙂 i just wanted to say that in eve everything is pvp. or better fits the word competition, which in turn is player vs player. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/48 "2020-05-12T14:31:17Z")
I know that was aimed at @QuakeGod, not me, and I completely agree with you; everything in Eve can be competitive if you choose to make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Emma\_Lane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emma_lane/32/204694_2.png) [@Emma\_Lane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emma_Lane)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/49 "2020-05-12T14:35:04Z")
I agree with what you said. My point is that the original poster actually used an article that isn’t supporting his argument, regardless if the article was true or not. In short, the OP states why EVE is not a PVP game. Links an article that says EVE **IS** a PVP game (and more)… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/50 "2020-05-12T14:36:03Z")
> [@Torg\_Jupiter](#): > > Yes, mining is at the core of all eve activity, No, it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/51 "2020-05-12T14:37:46Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > Eve is not a pvp game. Describe in your own words how you define PvP? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/52 "2020-05-12T14:39:05Z")
Sorry for the confusion. In another thread the names i have linked in that post used those exact arguments to deny the New Player FAQ released by CCP themselves (which incidentally describes EVE’s essential core concept as a pvp sandbox) meant anything, and apparently never meant anything. In other words, you wouldn’t get it unless you had seen the other thread. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/53 "2020-05-12T15:05:30Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > Eve is not a pvp game. > [@QuakeGod](#): > > Name one activity (other than Project Discovery) where you don’t have to interact with other players, or risk unwanted interaction with other players? It says a lot about the direction of Eve and the makeup of the “Eve **IS** PvP” crowd when they have to start defining PvP as “anything that involves player interaction”. Sort of like CCP defining “players clicking the launch screen to pick up a reward” as “we’ve seen a great increase in player numbers!”. You can spin it any way you like, actual PvP is and always has been a minority activity in Eve. It’s basically just the excuse for all the other activity that goes on in Eve. If we want PvP to be a significant portion of Eve gameplay, then the game needs a redesign of the entire PvP process. From rewards and penalties to mechanics and battlegrounds. The small amounts of PvP that do occur are old, stale, boring and not engaging enough to maintain player interest. Time to do more than tweak a few numbers here and there and hope for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/54 "2020-05-12T15:12:40Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > defining PvP as “anything that involves player interaction”. What is your definition? ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/55 "2020-05-12T15:13:58Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > when they have to start defining PvP as “anything that involves player interaction”. Describe in your own words how you define PvP? ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/56 "2020-05-12T15:20:14Z")
Wall of text to demonstrate that you don’t understand what’s being spoken about, when people call EvE a PvP game. The real time strategy element is also PvP. When you mine in hisec that’s PvP because you are competing for resources and avoiding human dangers. When you sell things on the market you having a PvP effect, competing with players to set prices. When you run a small do-nothing hisec corp and don’t even undock you are competing with other people for members, resources, taxes and defending from human dangers to your flock. EvE is catagorically a PvP game in every way. To suggest otherwise only suggests you didn’t understand the game on any more that a surface level. It’s not about playstyles, and when people say “undocking is accepting risk of loss” they are just making a complicated situation into an easy to understand rule. The game allows for anyone to aggress you as long as they’re willing to accept the consequences, so quite obviously you are accepting that risk by undocking or you wouldn’t be playing. Please don’t run for CSM. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/57 "2020-05-12T15:22:59Z")
The basic, original definition: “player vs. player combat”. Of course, the crowd still desperately trying to pretend Eve is ‘all about PvP’ will then try to re-define ‘combat’ as ‘any player interaction involving a degree of competitiveness’. The problem with that is it rapidly becomes meaningless, because then everything can be called PvP and every game becomes a PvP game. They’ll then try to re-define _that_ and say “no no, player competition in Eve is actually PvP because only Eve has a truly special marketplace and only Eve has a real economy and only Eve was designed that way and…” etc. How do I know they’ll do these things? Because they’ve it done dozens of times before whenever it’s pointed out that Eve is actually a PvE MMO with a somewhat stronger focus on non-consensual PvP than most other MMOs. At any rate, **PvP** is player vs. player combat. **Combat** is attacking a target with weapons with the intent to destroy said target. Feel free to start spinning it any way you like, it won’t change the reality of the game or the terms. (Note: the “spin it any way you like” wasn’t directed at @Runa_Yamaguchi, but at the whole “player competition is PvP” crowd, which makes the term meaningless for this purpose.) ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/58 "2020-05-12T15:28:11Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The basic, original definition: “player vs. player combat”. This PvPC term is a new one. Gotta look that up. Just realized how deep this rabbit hole goes, when I looked up the definition of “combat”. Material for at least 100 more pages. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/59 "2020-05-12T15:28:21Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Feel free to start spinning it any way you like, it won’t change the reality of the game or the terms. The only “spin” I’d point out this that PvP defines that you are playing against a human(s) rather than the computer…regardless of game type. PvP can be in a turn based strategy or card game or football…combat isn’t the defining bit but rather the two P’s ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/60 "2020-05-12T15:38:50Z")
hmm…what does CCP have to say about that? > [@Torg\_Jupiter](#): > > No, i’m not going to apply for CSM. ☹ That is unfortunate. That would be interesting. I think the application deadline was extended until May 13 (EvE time of course). Please consider standing for CSM, OP. You might have just enough time to apply! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=4)