# Why Eve is not a PvP game **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** industrial, pve, pvp\ **Created:** [May 12, 2020, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538 "2020-05-12T09:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/81 "2020-05-12T16:34:53Z")
What bait? O\_o ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/82 "2020-05-12T16:37:40Z")
The apparently too well hidden bait disguised as a rhetorical question about whether or not Eve was an mmorpg/mmorts hybrid. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/83 "2020-05-12T16:39:01Z")
Where? O\_O ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/84 "2020-05-12T16:41:02Z")
It was a couple of hours ago so probably post 30 something. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/85 "2020-05-12T16:41:45Z")
You INSIST on me scrolling up! You REALLY, REALLY DO! FINE! ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/86 "2020-05-12T16:43:33Z")
You don’t need to scroll, click on my name and it’ll show how many posts I have in the topic, click on that and it’ll filter the thread to only my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/87 "2020-05-12T16:45:01Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Which gives rise to the question of could Eve be considered to be an mmorts/rpg hybrid? This isn’t particularly baiting. I wouldn’t know how to respond, except with a “No.” EVE is its own genre. It’s a socio-economic simulation. It’s not a game per se. People keep saying it’s a game, because that’s what it’s marketted as, but in the end it’s a gigantic social experiment and the only of its kind. EVE doesn’t belong to any single genre. CCP can add all kinds of different games literally into EVE ONLINE, even into the client, if they wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/88 "2020-05-12T16:46:31Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > You don’t need to scroll, click on my name and it’ll show how many posts I have in the topic, click on that and it’ll filter the thread to only my posts. OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHhhhhhh… ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/a/fad894c63b31650116d11f4c184ae14bd3bd3b1b.png) I never tried clicking that! ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/89 "2020-05-12T16:48:56Z")
I just thought that it might spark some interesting discussion. Eve is the only MMO that I play, I do play a lot of RTS games though, mostly 4 or 5 player matches and there are many similarities, less the economy bit which only comes with large numbers of players playing in a persistent world. > I never tried clicking that! We can all learn something new from other people 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/90 "2020-05-12T16:51:40Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Eve is the only MMO that I play It’s also the only one truly deserving to be called an MMO! > [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > We can all learn something new from other people You teach me a lot! Mostly words! 😃 Which RTS are you playing? I love RTS games! And look, I taught Runa something! 😃 ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/5/3543cece36d9fb3aaa193039c9e2387e0d07d4ad.png) Okay, technically no one knows, because it’s just theory, but it’s better than nothing! ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/91 "2020-05-12T16:56:14Z")
> [@Solecist\_Projekt](#): > > Which RTS are you playing? I play a lot of Rise of Nations and Age of Empires both solo and with my brother and a few friends. Other than that I’ve got Sins of a Solar Empire, C&C and some other stuff. I’m thinking of getting Iron Harvest because I love the whole aesthetic of it. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/92 "2020-05-12T16:58:34Z")
Wow! I never played any of these! I only played the silly ones like Cossacks, Supreme Commander, Act of War _(that was really great!)_ and mostly C&C Generals until I started winning and my opponent “lost interest” in playing, that lubeless loser!\*\* Nothing more grand. I don’t play single player and I don’t really know any real people who play any RTS games, except one guy who I used to play Cossacks with a lot. Been a year since our last game. ☹ Iron Harvest. Never heard of it! Release Date: September 3rd. \*\*_(he’s lubeless, because he’s sore!)_ ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/93 "2020-05-12T17:01:14Z")
lol I’ve got Generals, most of what I have has multiple versions to play. I like city-builders too, I was a huge simcity fan until they screwed it up, now I play Cities Skylines which is most excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/94 "2020-05-12T17:02:05Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It says a lot about the direction of Eve and the makeup of the “Eve **IS** PvP” crowd when they have to start defining PvP as “anything that involves player interaction”. It says a lot about your own lack of comprehension of this concept if you don’t define it this way. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You can spin it any way you like, actual PvP is and always has been a minority activity in Eve. You can spin it any way you like, “actual” PvP is much more than your tiny vision of it. “Actual”, “True”, “Real”, all this adjectives placed in front of “PvP” are just a mean for ignorant players to limite the field of PvP to a tiny portion of it, because they subjectively decide that this is the part tha matters and the rest is not “real”. PvP is Player versus Player. It does not limit to combat. Never. No matter how much times you put the words “Actual”, “True”, “Real” in front of it, what you consider to be PvP is and will stay only a small part of it. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > If we want PvP to be a significant portion of Eve gameplay, then the game needs a redesign of the entire PvP process. From rewards and penalties to mechanics and battlegrounds. No we don’t. PvP is the center of EvE gameplay, and everything else exist to fuel it. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The small amounts of PvP that do occur are old, stale, boring and not engaging enough to maintain player interest. Nah, complete and obvious BS. PvP combat (since I know this is what you refer to) is by far the less boring and the most engaging content EvE has to offer. I mean, this is not even up to debate. If you actually believe that this part is “old, stale and boring”, I don’t understand how you can play EvE PvE, or even worst, mining, without literally be bored to the point of commiting suicide to deliver yourself from it. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The basic, original definition: “player vs. player combat”. Yeah, except this is not the basic and original definition. The basic and original definition is “Player Versus Player”. Adding the word “combat” in this definition is a lie. Nothing else. Strategy games are PvP, Chess are PvP, Monopoly is PvP, [Skribbl.io](http://Skribbl.io) is PvP, none of them includes combat. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The problem with that is it rapidly becomes meaningless, because then everything can be called PvP and every game becomes a PvP game. No, this is plain wrong. There are games where players are never put to competition between each other, and instead must all work together to reach a goal. Those games are not PvP. Our definition and vision of it do not make “every game a PvP game”, as there is still a fuckton of games that never enter our definition. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > At any rate, **PvP** is player vs. player combat. No. PvP is Player VS Player. “Combat” is optionnal, and pretending it isn’t is a lie. No matter how much time you just repeat this statement, I have no problem in quoting it each and every time and repeat you that is it a lie. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > **Combat** is attacking a target with weapons with the intent to destroy said target. Oh, thank you! Thanks to this sentence, then you admit yourself that a lot of games can be, and are, considered PvP without the “Combat” part, since they do not feature the definition of Combat you gave yourself. I always love when people destroy their own arguments, that makes my work much easier. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Feel free to start spinning it any way you like, it won’t change the reality of the game or the terms. At the end of the day, this is a nice conclusion to apply to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/95 "2020-05-12T17:03:34Z")
I loved the first SimCity and SimCity 2k! Is City Skylines actually good? I thought it’s too “modern” in comparison? Have you ever played SimTower? LGR made a video about it! I can only recommend this game! Oh … someone interrupts our conversation. We need to wiggle it into the topic of the thread. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/96 "2020-05-12T17:06:51Z")
PVP doesn’t have to involve combat. Whether I gank your Orca with a 30-man fleet, or I bump you into the next dimension with a Machariel, the end result is the same. You aren’t getting a damn thing mined. That’s PVP… ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/98 "2020-05-12T17:12:02Z")
> [@Solecist\_Projekt](#): > > Is City Skylines actually good? I thought it’s too “modern” in comparison? IMHO Yes, I’ve got over 1000 hours invested and a constantly evolving city of just under 100,000 citizens. The vanilla game is like 26 Euros on Steam, contains everything you need to build a functioning city that looks good, isn’t traffic hell and makes money, it’s updated regularly too. Everything else is optional and you can pick and choose the DLC you want with very few dependencies on other DLC packs. The maps are massive and with a mod you get all 300+ square km of it to play with. The mod and asset scene for it is massive, once again with few dependencies on DLC. People have built everything from medieval cities to Martian colonies with it, so the scope is massive. It’s everything the last SimCity promised and then failed to be, and more. Also traffic works, without mods it can be amusingly dumb but with mods it works very well. ---
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/99 "2020-05-12T17:12:54Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s unlikely that you’d argue that the auction house in WoW makes WoW a PvP game, so I’m not sure why you’d argue that any interaction in EVE makes it a PvP game. Because the auction house of WoW is extremely far from having the influence that the EvE market have on the overall gameplay of the playerbase, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/100 "2020-05-12T17:14:56Z")
ITT reasonable people reasoning with ignorant people. It’s not a matter of logic or knowledge. At all. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/102 "2020-05-12T17:20:37Z")
Okay, I’ll give [LGR’s review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJb7C2OE9xM) a second look. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/d/6d498443d5c5ed51cdbc0a3733e8e4d6898a0a26.jpeg) Personally it does not look very appealing (too modern, too “realistic”) to me … … and I’m not into single player games anymore … … with only very rare exceptions. I eat dextro energy for an instant sugar boost when I play DOOM2016. 😈 That being said … … can I nuke the city … … have massive crime rates … … and throw society into anarchy? 😊 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=6)