# Why Eve is not a PvP game **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pve, pvp, industrial\ **Created:** [May 12, 2020, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538 "2020-05-12T09:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/103 "2020-05-12T17:20:38Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > In what way? They are about equal. Lol, seriously? AH in WoW is pretty much irrelevant. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > They influence the price you need to pay to buy items from other players and the income you can generate from sourcing base materials and drops. Sure. Their base concepts are similars. Then again, in EvE, the economy and your ability to buy or produce your ships and your modules is a huge part of what dictate your gameplay possibilities. Meanwhile, in WoW, you can reach the absolute end-game content without ever opening the AH in your life, except to buy a few potions/food that will represent about 10% of the money you gather by just playing the game without actually trying hard to earn money. They both “influence the price you need to pay to buy items from other players and the income you can generate from sourcing base materials and drops”, true. Except there is one game in wich this concept is relevant, and one game in wich it isn’t. ISK in EvE and Gold in WoW absolutely cannot be put on the same scale of relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/104 "2020-05-12T17:23:39Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > > [@Rekindle](#): > > > > Eve is not a pvp game. > > Describe in your own words how you define PvP? Please don’t encourage him… ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/105 "2020-05-12T17:24:29Z")
> [@Dravick\_Afterthought](#): > > Please don’t encourage him… 🤭 It’s pure bait. Only an idiot would define it all for himself, ignoring the actual meaning and definition. Now look at all the people who are too dumb to understand what … … Player vs. Player … … means. They rather invent additional words and meanings that are not in “Player vs. Player” than just accepting the written word as they can see it on their screen. It’s not about logic or knowledge. It’s all about the victim complex. When you look at it, everything boils down to some people being victims of others. If they’d admitted that EVE was a PvP game, then they’d have to admit that all the idiots who keep whining … you know, the idiots they defend … would be wrong. Any arguments and reasons don’t matter at all. The only thing that matters to these guys is their massive white knighting. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/106 "2020-05-12T17:25:27Z")
> [@Solecist\_Projekt](#): > > That being said … > … can I nuke the city … > … have massive crime rates … > … and throw society into anarchy? YES!, to the last two anyway. Nuking, or belting it with asteroids etc needs the Natural disasters DLC. If that’s what you’re into then check out [GrayStillPlays](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzEy7pi3B7TIS9cn_sdKK9A/search?query=cities+skylines) on youtube. Looks wise the steam workshop is the place to go, UI reskins, pretty much any building or building theme that you want, extra tools to make the game more usable… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/108 "2020-05-12T17:30:44Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > In what way? They are about equal. They influence the price you need to pay to buy items from other players and the income you can generate from sourcing base materials and drops. Not saying that the WoW AH and EVE market are completely different, but I don’t recall having to buy new armour from the AH for player-defined prices each time our party wiped. The EVE market is an integral part of the game. For WoW it’s a minor thing. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/109 "2020-05-12T17:30:50Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > YES! 😮 > [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > If that’s what you’re into then check out [GrayStillPlays](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzEy7pi3B7TIS9cn_sdKK9A/search?query=cities+skylines) on youtube. Hey, you editted your post! It was sufficient already! Very encouraging! I’ll have a look at the video(s). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/110 "2020-05-12T17:31:53Z")
Destruction via hurricane flood asteroid mayhem is a DLC though. You can still create hell on earth without it though. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_projekt/32/204683_2.png) [@Solecist\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/111 "2020-05-12T17:33:58Z")
Stop it, you’re ruining it. 😠 I will check out the channel, but I doubt I’ll spend money on it. In the end it’s still a single player game and I’m not a builder anymore. Or maybe it’s not that, because the idea of playing classic SimCity and SimTower feels fine. I AM SOL DESTROYER OF WORLDS \*_coughcough\*_ \*_spreads pink glitter and leaves the thread\*_ ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/113 "2020-05-12T17:36:20Z")
I once built a city around a nuclear reactor surrounded by dirty industry; the death rate was so high ambulances and hearses would be trapped in a traffic jam composed of 100’s of other ambulances and hearses. ---
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/114 "2020-05-12T17:36:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not though. LMAO, okay then, if you say so. I will think about it again when I encounter any situation where the AH is relevant, didn’t find one after a decade of playing WoW, maybe sometimes in the second decade, if the game doesn’t close before it. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But it’s the same in EVE. Sure you’d have to open it to buy BPOs, but that’s the equivalent of a vendor in WoW. You don’t actually _need_ to buy anything from another player in EVE if you don’t want to. Well, I give you that. You can produce instead of buy. Doesn’t change anything to the abysmal difference between the life of an industrialist producing his own ships and modules, and noticeably having to restart the process every time he happen to loose a ship, and… the life of a WoW player who actually get his gear from killing boss, quests, etc, and never loose it on death. The economical part of EvE is crucial, even if you decide to build your own little economy. It’s not in WoW. Especially since crafting professions have become absolutely irrelevants in the game, six years ago. Right now, in the game, there is one single item sometimes used by very specific class that comes from crafting in high-level content. So much for the relevance of economy and crafting. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Only because you’ve arbitrarily decided it’s important in one and not in the other. Like EVE you can buy game time with currency in WoW, and like EVE, using the AH to generate that income is faster and less effort than grinding for it. Are you really down to use “Paying your subscription with ingame money” as an example of why economy is relevant to the core gameplay of those games? Even then, this is wrong. In WoW you’d actually generate much more money by making other players pay for different kind of Powerlevel than you will ever do with the AH. You can pay your subscription with a single power-level run of a MM+15, that takes about 20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/115 "2020-05-12T17:46:54Z")
The auction house in itself does sound like pvp. But it doesn’t seem to be a core part of the game. If the auction house was integral to how wow was designed, like the market or combat in eve, then that might change things. Congrats. You finally found a pve game with pvp elements. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But it’s the same in EVE. Sure you’d have to open it to buy BPOs, but that’s the equivalent of a vendor in WoW. You don’t actually _need_ to buy anything from another player in EVE if you don’t want to. There’s a big difference in how that impacts your game though. There’s no doubt in anyone’s mind here that the market and exposure to other players is a core part of eve. The auction house in wow however is not pertinent to the main game. ---
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/118 "2020-05-12T17:57:14Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again though, that’s how relevant it is _to you_ . You’re saying “well I don’t use the AHso it doesn’t matter”. You not choosing to use it doesn’t stop it being relevant to the game. That’s a fair point. However, I was not only speaking about how _I_ am using it by saying that I have “never encountered a situation where it is relevant”. More of a general statement about how the state of the game, the players progression, anything really, was actually heavily impacted by gold, and therefore the economy of the game (or your particular server), and finally by the AH. Nothing in WoW is decided by who got what kind of money, and nothing crucial to the gameplay of anybody is found in AH. In EvE, ISK is extremely relevant to the power and influence of every player and organisation. In WoW, Golds are not. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But that’s the loss mechanics, not the market. So what? Yes, the relevance of the market doesn’t only revolve around how the market itself work, but also because of how it interact with the other mechanics. We are speaking about the market being really relevant for the game as a whole or not, obviously you have to take into account how it works as a whole with other mechanics. Yes, the bigger relevance is partially due to loss mechanic. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > In WoW you effectively lose all of your equipment periodically as they use a planned obsolescence mechanic instead. And when the times come to replace it, you won’t use neither AH or crafting for that. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why is it? If you want to mine and build your own barge then exhumer, etc, why is the economy relevant to you? Because it defines the price you will have to pay for your Exhumer and following ships, because it defines how much the ore you mine is worth, and to some extand, because ganks exist, and you progressing towards more valuable ships in terms of ISK also influence the risk of said ganks happening. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m just giving you one of the reasons a player may care about the market since you decided that you not caring about the AH means noone does and that it’s irrelevant to the game. Well I’m not sure a reason that is separated from the core gameplay, aka “paying your subscription”, is a very good example to work on if we want to determine how important it is for the actual game. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But on the original point, wouldn’t engaging with other players for a powerlevel run mean it’s PvP too? To some extant, yes. I’ve never pretended that WoW had no PvP, after all. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > by the above definition means the game is PvP. To me, what makes the difference is the impact it has on the core gameplay. WoW has PvP, but its end-game, goals, main content, etc, are heavily PvE focused. On the other hand, the main content, goals, and “end-game” (well, less for this one) of EvE revolve around PvP. That’s doesn’t mean that WoW has no PvP and EvE has no PvE. That’s more about the actual purpose of it all. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/119 "2020-05-12T17:59:11Z")
This must be OP’s first sandbox game. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/120 "2020-05-12T18:02:30Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why not? Because you’ve decided thats the case? Because it’s referenced as a alternative mechanic, not a core one. [https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-warcraft/classic-auction-house-guide?amp](https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-warcraft/classic-auction-house-guide?amp) > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But the player market is only core to EVE through choice. You don’t have to engage with it. you have to open the same window because CCP have bundled all of their NPC sellers into the same market window, but you don’t ever need to engage with the player market. So how would you get a battleship without any exposure to pvp? ---
**Author:** ![Kaabii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaabii/32/199405_2.png) [@Kaabii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaabii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/121 "2020-05-12T18:07:00Z")
i dont agree with OP´s opinion. for me is it like this 1.0~0.5=PvE 0.4~-1.0= PvP and then is there the exception of wardeclerations where Highsec then turns into a PvP area aswell for 2 corporations/alliances. if anything is eve online a PvEvP game or … how that gets combined … PvPvE? you knooow … that short term thing when a game goes PvE and PvP and trys to find a balance inbetween. =.= ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/123 "2020-05-12T18:15:40Z")
Nobody cares if the auction house in WoW counts as PvP. All that matters is that the market in EvE is PvP. Your argument is what we call a Red Herring. ---
**Author:** ![Kaabii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaabii/32/199405_2.png) [@Kaabii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaabii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/125 "2020-05-12T18:21:01Z")
but Eve online is … if you want it or not … mainly focused on PvP … if it wouldnt be focused on PvP would it probably not possible to hop into a catalyst and poke those poor afk miners in HS to death and having s friendly talk with concord afterwards. if it would be like OP says here would it be like in WoW. where you cant attack players in x zones but as soon they step into a contested zone is it PvP. in WoW is it texhnicly not possible to force someone into PvP … therefore its a PvE oriented game. (that is if you play on a PvE server, if you play on a PvP server know you what you get yourself into anyways) in eve is it possible to get forced into PvP. therefore more PvP focused. eve online is more PvP focused… thats why peoples say “its a PvP game” =x ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/126 "2020-05-12T18:21:10Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is a vital part of WoW Classic’s economy Yes. Economy. Not game. He’s describing it as an alternative to get items. Where as, correct me if I’m wrong, ccp direct players to the market as the main way to get items. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Grind NPCs, buy BPO, mine ore, build ship. > > Amusingly my very first battleship (like a zillion years ago when they took a heck of a lot longer to gather resources for) was built from scratch using mined resources. Right. But I can hunt you whilst your grinding. Or i can try to mine everything before you can. I take it that’s not the case in wow… So: how do you get a battleship without being exposed to pvp. ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/127 "2020-05-12T18:21:17Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I was simply pointing out that by the same logic WoW - a notoriously PvE heavy game - is inherently PvP too. Do you need to use the auction house in WoW to complete any PvE content at all? No because your argument is facile. To satisfy you, yes the AH in WoW can be considered a PvP activity. it’s possible to undercut or gouge other players, and it’s possible to manipulate the market to your benefit at the expense of others. It’s just that in WoW it has almost no effect on the rest of the game. You can complete all of the content in WoW without ever using the AH. The marketplace in EVE is central to everything. Unless you only fly your newbie ship forever, because mining minerals for a new ship is a PvP activity, and one that will take out out of high security space at that. Everything other than your newbie ship and some civilian mods is player made, and for anything you make for yourself you compete with other players. You probably think minerals you mine yourself are free. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Kaabii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaabii/32/199405_2.png) [@Kaabii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaabii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/129 "2020-05-12T18:33:34Z")
no, it is not. you can lv in WoW without getting forced into PvP. you dont even need to go near the horde or alliance territories. noone can kill you, noone can farm stalk you. you can stand with a horde char infront of stormwind without being able to get attacked cause PvE server. only if you enter SW=PvP its different in eve online. in eve online can you get shot everywhere. illegal or not. thats what i mean with more focused on PvP. if you think that you are safe in high sec … oh boy … then you dont play eve online not for long. null sec is often more safe then highsec. expecially if you are poart of the bigger empires/alliances and if you are part of those wont you go into HS anymore anyways because of all the war ■■■■ which going on. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=7)