# Why Eve is not a PvP game **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pve, pvp, industrial\ **Created:** [May 12, 2020, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538 "2020-05-12T09:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Skip\_Lorry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skip_lorry/32/244808_2.png) [@Skip\_Lorry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skip_Lorry)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/164 "2020-05-12T20:39:11Z")
“EVE is not a PvP game” is a hell of a first strike. ---
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/165 "2020-05-12T20:44:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I mean for me, probably not mch taht couldn;t be financed. But Like with WoW excluding wanting to collect literally everything there’s not much that any veteran will spend much on in comparison with their wealth generation. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Only if they learn to play like a veteran and generate income like that. Much like in EVE I imagine there are plenty of newbie players that never really learn how to generate income efficiently. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not though, it’s only relevant if you want to do something that costs a lot of ISK. Hell, when I was an F1 monkey in SMA I effectively got paid to be in fleets. For anyone that just wanted to come in and get in fleet fights, they would have no use for outside income sources. You only need ISK if you are choosing something that specifically needs a lot of ISK and even then you won’t need a shockingly large amount for most things. To answer all of that at once: Fair enough, you are perfectly right that at some point, when you reach “Veteran” state, all of that financial concern became pretty trivial in both games. The thing is, I clearly believe that the point where it does became trivial happen much, much sooner in WoW. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Can you show me where on the market they store the fully researched BPOs? I’m not into industry so I have no clue about BPOs, but in any case you can buy the final product. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why? Well, because the “core” of the gameplay is mostly “how do you reach the end-game”, and the “best” items are parts of it. Now of course, once in the game, players can go different roads. But not wanting to focus yourself on the main goal doesn’t stop it from being the original main goal, and therefore the “core”. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But again this comes back to your point of view mattering. Well it comes back to which one are more impactful on the gameplay. I won’t deny that it is influenced by my point of view, just like your own arguments are influenced by yours. Sorry to not be a robot, it might be disappointing I guess. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No that’s not what I was implying, I was stating that without PvE, there would be no realistic way to engage in PvP as it is now. Without PvP, Pve would still be viable. That suggests that PvE mechanics are more relevant that PvP mechanics ergo it’s a PvE game with PvP mechanics. I was more thinking about the industrial part myself, but yes, the PvE in the sense of missionning and ratting, would be unchanged. Tho, without a strong focus on adding some depth to this aspect of the game, I’m pretty sure their won’t be much players left. (But actually I have nothing against PvE and would love some more content in it myself) > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Depends on the goal. Plenty of people play single player gathering games which can’t have PvP and seem to get on alright. Usually they have some sort of goal like building specific things that they would be the only ones to build because such games include this features. I see no equivalent in EvE. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/167 "2020-05-12T21:55:54Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Without PvP, Pve would still be viable. Nope. Mining/industry/etc (which you are falsely considering PvE when they are primarily PvP activities) would not be viable in the absence of PvP. With minimal destruction to drive demand there would be vast amounts of excess production and the economy would cease to function. You’d still be able to mine rocks and turn them into ships but there wouldn’t be anything to _do_ with those ships anymore. Instead of a complicated and interesting player-driven economy industry would be nothing more than a meaningless marker of how many hours you have spent with active mining lasers. IOW, there would be no further reason to engage in those activities. (Though, to be fair, combat PvE would still be possible but with no economy left to make you care about ISK hardly anyone would bother with such boring things and CCP would very quickly go bankrupt.) ---
**Author:** ![Yalezorn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yalezorn/32/195555_2.png) [@Yalezorn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yalezorn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 1:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/168 "2020-05-13T01:13:43Z")
You say that as if being an RTS is somehow mutually exclusive with pvp. Is starcraft famous for it’s single player, or for the tournaments? EVE is a pvp game. If you can’t handle that, best find a new game. And if you’re just going to argue semantics, that’s just pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Zombie\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zombie_ellecon/32/264152_2.png) [@Zombie\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zombie_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 5:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/169 "2020-05-13T05:10:11Z")
Was this thread started because someone lost a ship while mining and immediately stomped down to the forums to complain?. My thumb hurts and I cannot be bothered to scroll to the top to see. The venture I killed because he kept bumping me into rocks would agree this is a PvP based game. ---
**Author:** ![Phalanxia\_Theroan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phalanxia_theroan/32/205127_2.png) [@Phalanxia\_Theroan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phalanxia_Theroan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/170 "2020-05-13T06:09:57Z")
Character creation is PVP? ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/171 "2020-05-13T06:42:43Z")
> [@Torg\_Jupiter](#): > > It’s an MMO with a PvP part It’s a beautiful hierarchy with the PvP crowd on top and a bottom layer of hapless mindless farmers that willingly play the targets. > [@Torg\_Jupiter](#): > > Yes, mining is at the core of all eve activity, and all looking down on miners is juvenile at best More like at the bottom of the PvP food chain. It’s also why we have to look down on them. ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/172 "2020-05-13T07:07:57Z")
> [@Torg\_Jupiter](#): > > Nothing wrong with that, people have a right to be juvenile No you have NOT,that’s just what political correct and diversity favoring people try to tell you. There is no right to be unpolite to anybody…not even an imagined one…never. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 7:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/173 "2020-05-13T07:13:55Z")
> [@Darlo\_Kubika](#): > > There is no right to be unpolite to anybody That’s actually a basic freedom which to a great extent is protected in most democracies (in public places). Even in forums they don’t enforce politeness to a point…same goes for being juvenile… ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/174 "2020-05-13T07:17:11Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > That’s actually a basic freedom which to a great extent is protected in most democracies (in public places). Even in forums they don’t enforce politeness to a point…same goes for being juvenile… Freedom has limits…everywhere… Personal freedom ends where it disturbs the personal freedom of other people. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 7:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/175 "2020-05-13T07:23:46Z")
> [@Darlo\_Kubika](#): > > Freedom has limits…everywhere… > > Personal freedom ends where it disturbs the personal freedom of other people. Of course…but one can be as rude as they want to be on public property and as long as they don’t cross a few lines (profanity, loudness, “tone”, etc) then no laws are broken…lots of grey there… ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 7:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/176 "2020-05-13T07:25:18Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Of course…but one can be as rude as they want to be on public property and as long as they don’t cross a few lines (profanity, loudness, “tone”, etc) then no laws are broken…lots of grey there… But that’s no ‘right’… That’s just…tolerated… 🙂 There is no ‘right’ to be unpolite,as i stated… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/177 "2020-05-13T07:31:21Z")
> [@Darlo\_Kubika](#): > > But that’s no ‘right’… Then it would be illegal…which it’s not… 🙂 FoS (within reason) is that right… ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/178 "2020-05-13T07:34:57Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Then it would be illegal…which it’s not… 🙂 > > FoS (within reason) is that right… Something that is tolerated is not illegal by definition… And as ‘a right’ i would define something you are allowed to do by any means and not just because other people are tolerant enough to actually LET you do it without freaking out 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/180 "2020-05-13T10:03:40Z")
I know this is OT but this is actually interesting…please excuse folks… > Something that is tolerated is not illegal by definition But then it can’t be enforced lawfully…first and foremost one must ask is something legal or illegal. Then then next question is if it’s illegal, is a laws enforced governing the action? For example, if it’s illegal to play your music louder than 60db then at 58db one can’t be touched by the law nor is the music being tolerated. > [@Darlo\_Kubika](#): > > as ‘a right’ i would define something you are allowed to do by any means and not just because other people are tolerant enough to actually LET you do it without freaking out The first half of that is correct. The second-half is irreverent as the state grants rights, not what people generally think at that moment. It would be a person’s right to play their music at 58db regardless of whether others are freaking out or not. Consideration of others fall under the “manners” or “politeness” issues that all this started with. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There aren’t laws around everything that is right and wrong. There are plenty of things that are wrong but the law allows. But this never was about “right or wrong” but rather your claim that nobody has the right to be impolite (post #171). “Right or wrong” is subjective…laws are objective; rarely do the two meet. ---
**Author:** ![Eve\_Griefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eve_griefer/32/277788_2.png) [@Eve\_Griefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eve_Griefer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/181 "2020-05-13T10:10:11Z")
I think I need to bookmark some of these posts for when those posters get impolite. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/182 "2020-05-13T10:19:53Z")
Since this always gets a bit controversial I made a graph to show how the PvP food chain works in this PvP game and that the “PvE players” are indeed part of this overall PvP food chain. I hope that settles the argument once and for all. ![eve_pvp_food_chain](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/1/61fb8d02c305355b6fd0ea0069a1d562540aaf84.png) ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/183 "2020-05-13T10:21:24Z")
LOL…ty for that… 🤣 😂 😅 😆 😁 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/184 "2020-05-13T10:27:54Z")
You missed a bit! ![huh](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/b/bb9e3d10d3b2b287fb597c563aa2f8b48b4cd89e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Drammie\_Askold](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drammie_askold/32/380085_2.png) [@Drammie\_Askold](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drammie_Askold)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538/186 "2020-05-13T11:26:21Z")
It would be theoretically possible to do so, but incredibly time consuming. Not only would the battleship BPO have to be purchased, but the BPOs of all the modules would have to be purchased. Likewise the BPOs of the ammunition. IIRC rigs need salvage to produce so that would have to be collected using a salvager the BPO of which would have to be purchased also. Any T2 stuff would open a huge can of worms. I suspect that it would take another 17 years of playing EvE to do so. Of course all the mining and other activities would put the miner at great risk of pvp. Particularly where some minerals have to be mined. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-eve-is-not-a-pvp-game/240538.md?page=9)