# Why is the Repair Systems skill a two-edged sword? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2023, 7:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892 "2023-08-14T07:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 3:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/283 "2023-09-27T03:28:56Z")
Even with guides and advice I tend to overtank until I’m comfortable with the activity, then lower tank and up my damage as appropriate. Edit: Dammit. Just noticed which thread this was… ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/284 "2023-09-27T07:19:41Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > Not all of us play to min max and part of the fun is to create fits for things without prefect information I agree and you’re 100% correct. Syzygium is obviously a min/max player who now runs Abyssal content in cookiecutter fits that others have figured out through trial and error, all the while trying to present himself as King of Eve. The fact that he states level 4 Epic Arcs should be run in BS or Marauder proves that he just follows the pack using already established doctrine instead of pioneering his own path. Hell, I’ll bet he’s a big advocate for cherry picking select cans in hacking sites and shortcutting through exploration combat sites just to quickly get ISK instead of actually enjoying the content. But hey, that’s ok, I’m a firm believer in ‘To each their own’, which is something he doesn’t seem to or want to accept. ---
**Author:** ![Murasame\_Masamune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/murasame_masamune/32/375408_2.png) [@Murasame\_Masamune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Murasame_Masamune)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/285 "2023-09-27T12:56:52Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Thats simple logic. A good fit focuses on Damage and Application and only fits enough tank and cap to give you time for reducing the incoming pressure. You are not the arbiter on what is and isn’t “good”. No one gave you sole authority to dictate narrow parameters of what doctrine is acceptable. > [@Syzygium](#): > > A good fit for L4 Missions, Combat Anomalies, Belt Ratting or DED Complexes has around 5-8 minutes cap buffer. Bruh, that’s basically cap stable. 🙄 And while these generalized across-the-board statements regarding fitting are nice and all, they have absolutely nothing to do with the scenario in question and the topic of the thread. > [@Syzygium](#): > > During that time you reduce the incoming DPS to a degree that you only need to pulse your repper/shield booster once in a while. You’re literally validating my takeaway from the situation I was in. It took longer to reduce incoming DPS than there was cap to get to that point if I had level 5. I was getting cap warns before DPS lowered to a point where I could give the rep a rest. It is only because I was level 1 at the time that I did not reach cap failure. Ergo, in that particular situation, it benefited me to not have level 5. And my stance is that that should never be the case. > [@Syzygium](#): > > Everything else on the fit is focused on sheer DPS and Application - which is what speeds up your mission and bring you the money. Of course you can intentionally build “chill” semi-afk fits that simply tank forever and need 20 minute for a mission or a complex… well, these are only “good” under the viewpoint of not-wanting-to-pay-attention. I don’t care about quickly amassing imaginary money. I have more than enough fake money for what I need. If you hate the content and want to run through it as fast as possible, why do you even bother with EVE PvE combat? You seem to loath it and want it over as easily and quickly as possible. I need there to be some risk and challenge. Not something I can do in my sleep, which seems to be your M.O. I was doing L2 missions flying a corvette before the mission in question forced me to upgrade to a rifter. And I’ll be crafting methods to do L3’s in dessies. I can assure you, there was nothing “chill semi-AFK” about it. The only way for you to equivocate being cap stable with semi-afk is if everything you do is so easy that merely having a sustainable tank = automatic success. > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Even with guides and advice I tend to overtank until I’m comfortable with the activity, then lower tank and up my damage as appropriate. > > Edit: Dammit. Just noticed which thread this was… Uh-oh! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/286 "2023-09-27T13:21:13Z")
> [@Phaade](#): > > I mean yes, If you go in with full information. But if you go in cold, and actually play eve for fun, you may want to over tank by some amount. Nothing speaks against testing out _unknown_ combat environments with overtanked and overcapped fits for learning their dangers. But these are actually _test fits_, enabling you to learn the content you want to run with this ship. After having done that, it is well recommended to optimize your fit to increase BOTH, ISK and FUN. Because, at least in my book, it is a lot more fun beating content when forced to make quick decsions, being on your toes and actually needing some skill to finish them in… how did he call it… “record time”. (this time for real, not that slow grinding a capstable Loki can do). And when coming to those fits that push your ship to the limits, you will leave the area of “capstability” pretty quickly, because capstability simply isn’t free. It comes at a price, which usually is mobility, damage and application. So no, optimizing a fit is in no way the opposite of “having fun in EVE”, it is a challenging progress that even increases your own skill, your knowledge about ships, fits and what they can do and last but not least your fun/hour logged in. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > … Spare yourself your made-up personal attacks that are only stawmen. You simply made up those things in your own mind to have some stawman to accuse me with, even while none of them are true. Your attacks do not defeat my argument at the slightest, the core misunderstanding in this topic from the OP is that “capstability” somehow makes a fit good. But it doesn’t. Capstability comes at a price, a high price usually because you pay for it with damage, range, application, mobility. Capstable fits usually create boring and long runs, while damage-optimized fits force you to really learn the content, make quick decisions, use your ship to it’s limits and after all make you a better pilot. If you don’t want that and simply slow-grind while sitting in the middle of all NPCs that cannot kill you anway because your capstable-fit tanks them forever, then please do that all day long. But these fits simply arent ‘good’ compared what is possible with all the fitting and piloting options EVE has to offer. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/287 "2023-09-27T14:51:45Z")
Spare me your strawman BS. I never said I sit there forever and slow grind while tanking the incoming DPS. In fact it’s just the opposite. I move quickly and reduce the incoming DPS with various piloting tactics so I can manage the spawn waves without having to warp out or dual box the arcs. I don’t do the same thing over and over, each mission is ran differently, sometimes it’s jump right into the middle of the rat pack and start blasting, other times it’s lead the pack out to split them up, always making sure to stay mobile and watch my tank while taking out any stasis or neut threats that spawn within range. So yeah, go toss your strawman BS somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/288 "2023-09-27T15:06:51Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I never said I sit there forever and slow grind while tanking the incoming DPS. In fact it’s just the opposite. I move quickly and reduce the incoming DPS with various piloting tactics so I can manage the spawn waves without having to warp out or dual box the arcs. No matter if you move or not, the poor damage output of a Loki basically ensures that you slowly grind through whatever spawns. 🤣 And this little damage that stretches these missions to an unnessessary lenght are the sole reason you need to have ‘capstable’ fit in there. Because you need to tank for way too long. 🙂 > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > toss your strawman BS somewhere else Telling the truth isn’t a strawman. A capstable Loki is simply a very poor Epic Arc runner compared what other ships can do. Thats a simple fact, T3Cs are just not every good with that kind of content. The Tengu would be the best of all those 4, and even that one is crappy slow compared to a FactionBS or Marauder. Not even a blinged-to-the-death Tengu with HydraSet for the extra range and application can compete with a slightly blinged Marauder. You can argue that all day long, it simply stays true. You know what a real strawman is: Making hollow assumptions about what kind of Abyssal Fits I might use or how I would run Exploration Content or why I would use which ships. Because you have simply no idea about that and just create a story in your mind to compensate for your lack of arguments. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/289 "2023-09-27T22:37:30Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > A capstable Loki is simply a very poor Epic Arc runner compared what other ships can do. Gawd, you’re just a broken record that keeps skipping back to the same old BS… > [@Syzygium](#): > > Because you have simply no idea about that and just create a story in your mind to compensate for your lack of arguments. Which is exactly what you’ve been doing in this thread… ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/290 "2023-09-27T23:44:44Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Gawd, you’re just a broken record that keeps skipping back to the same old BS… The truth cannot be told often enough. It would be a huge mistake for anyone to actually believe your capstable Loki with your claimed “specialized piloting tactics” (🤣) would actually run those EpicArcs in “record time”. It does not, because a Loki simply lacks the DPS and range to do that. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Which is exactly what you’ve been doing in this thread… You get things wrong here. Calling a Loki “slow” isn’t a made up story, it’s the sad truth. Assuming out of the blue how another player does other content that isn’t even the topic here and that you have no single bit of information about, that is a made up story used for personal attacks. Glad I could help you with that misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/291 "2023-09-28T01:30:20Z")
Do you know what my ship fit is? Do you know what Implants my clone has? Do you know what my skill levels are? No, you don’t. The only thing you do know is how to constantly talk BS and make assumptions based on your own flawed viewpoint. Other than that, I salute you for being a master troll… 🖕 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/292 "2023-09-28T04:18:50Z")
A Loki is simply a very poor Epic Arc runner compared what other ships can do. That’s a simple fact. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/293 "2023-09-28T04:43:38Z")
That ganker ^ just doesn’t want to hunt faster moving ships! 🤪🐢 ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/294 "2023-09-28T05:51:58Z")
Behave @Iceacid_Frostpacker or your mistress will put you in the cage again for your insubordination. 🤭 ---
**Author:** ![Tahiro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tahiro/32/380789_2.png) [@Tahiro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tahiro)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/295 "2023-09-28T06:18:04Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Do you know what my skill level is? barely cap stable? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/296 "2023-09-28T06:21:54Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Do you know what my ship fit is? Do you know what Implants my clone has? Do you know what my skill levels are? From the Lokis you lost in 2013 and 2020, i can infer that its 1: cloaky, 2: has welders-helmet-required amounts of bling and 3: isn’t being flown by your forum main. How’d I do? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/297 "2023-09-28T07:44:22Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Do you know what my ship fit is? Do you know what Implants my clone has? Do you know what my skill levels are? > > No, you don’t. Because thats completely irrelevant. Even a reasonably pimped Loki will only scratch on a thousand DPS pretty short range. Insisting that you can run the Epic Arcs in ‘record time’ with that is almost as bad as insisting that Repair Systems I has advantages over Repair Systems V. Are you sure the OP isn’t your alt? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/298 "2023-09-28T16:01:22Z")
> [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > How’d I do? You struck out on all 3… especially on that last one… ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/299 "2023-09-28T17:32:06Z")
> [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](#): > > mistress will put you in the cage again ![spotted-quolls](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/a/f/5af5c45ead25b604915f4b7b06d2e0d070feb0db.jpeg) Back off Uriel..We will never be caged again! @Uriel_the_Flame Actually princess has me farming that 2B inside this WH ![wormhole](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/d/4/cd4f06221ab3d1268f693c1ebc18ab69125f7488.jpeg) So I am in a sort of a cage right now! :sadparrot: ---
**Author:** ![Murasame\_Masamune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/murasame_masamune/32/375408_2.png) [@Murasame\_Masamune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Murasame_Masamune)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/300 "2023-09-29T14:24:38Z")
> [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > The only way for you to equivocate being cap stable with semi-afk is if everything you do is so easy that merely having a sustainable tank = automatic success. You confirmed it. > [@Syzygium](#): > > If you don’t want that and simply slow-grind while sitting in the middle of all NPCs that cannot kill you anway because your capstable-fit tanks them forever, then please do that all day long. If being “capstable” equates to invulnerability and automatic victory the content you’re doing is so easy the notion that you gain greater skill by doing it is absurd. You’re playing on easy mode. You don’t need sustainable tank because the incoming DPS is low and the enemies easily melt. You memorize content, fit to that specific content and run your tried-and-true routine. That does not imply any advanced skill. That’s standard fare. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/301 "2023-10-01T16:07:02Z")
Begone foul hypogephyrean child. ---
**Author:** ![Murasame\_Masamune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/murasame_masamune/32/375408_2.png) [@Murasame\_Masamune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Murasame_Masamune)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/302 "2023-10-02T15:35:41Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Begone foul hypogephyrean child. Are you a masochist or something? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892.md?page=16)