# Why is the Repair Systems skill a two-edged sword? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2023, 7:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892 "2023-08-14T07:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/162 "2023-09-03T18:31:19Z")
> [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > The problem with your scenario is that you haven’t established what the incoming DPS is. So the idea that you can turn it off is completely arbitrary. Why can’t you turn it off at level 1 too? Because if you can turn it off at level 1 then there is literally zero difference between them and having it at level 1 is not a benefit in the slightest lol ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/163 "2023-09-03T20:49:01Z")
OP refuses to provide any information relating to a specific fit or mission (probably because he knows that details will not help his case). Then he complains because people refuse to discuss the specific situation he refuses to provide. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/1/f/01fb6f87d1f9b827b9753326afb3391f4db629bf.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 3:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/164 "2023-09-04T03:02:48Z")
> [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > Now you’re going to dictate to me my position. Nice strawman. > > Not a strawman? **Quote me** saying any such thing. > > This is the part where you tuck tail and avoid my challenge to your willful, conscious, intentional lies. The nice thing about you is all I have to do is ask you to back up what you claim and you instantly crumble. You are child’s play. Begone. I’ve quoted you. Where’s your reply? Did you tuck tail and run because you’ve crumbled in the face of your own words? ---
**Author:** ![Phelan\_Kheldian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phelan_kheldian/32/450826_2.png) [@Phelan\_Kheldian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phelan_Kheldian)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 3:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/165 "2023-09-04T03:55:36Z")
Repair Systems: Operation of armor/hull repair modules. 5% reduction in repair systems duration per skill level. I don’t see anything about the skill being directly related to make your ship more cap stable. Also, the repair system isn’t about making your ship more cap stable, its about making your repair system better. And in terms of repair, ehp/s is **always** better. If cap management is an issue for you, I’d recommend improving skills actually related to cap management. Like Capacitor Management and Capacitor Systems Operation (this actually also improves cap recharge time in addition to being a requirement for certain modules). Because these are skills that actually are directly related to cap management, which seems to be your problem. The only ship I ever had issues making cap stable with an armor repairer was my Paladin. And Paladins have cap management issues due to RoF in bastion and using energy weapons. With my Paladin, I wait till my repper is halfway through its second cycle and I turn it off. If it looks like I need more repair, I turn it back on as soon as that cycle finishes. ---
**Author:** ![Murasame\_Masamune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/murasame_masamune/32/375408_2.png) [@Murasame\_Masamune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Murasame_Masamune)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/166 "2023-09-04T14:11:52Z")
> [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > its literally the opening sentence of this thread. Let’s not play dumb, Mephie. I know your ego won’t let you take your L and quit while you’re ahead. You’re a glutton for punishment. You’re not going to just pretend like I did not just quote you saying… > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Your position is that this is **SUCH A HUGE, EGREGIOUS PROBLEM** that the devs should recode the skill allowing you to lower it at will. **Quote me** where I said it such a HUGE and EGREGIOUS problem. Quote me saying anything to the effect that this is some game breaking issue that is absolutely necessary for the health of the game or anything to that effect. What you’re trying to do is equivalent to someone saying, _“Temporary SKINS should be available from the LP store”_ and you claiming that simply having that opinion on the subject constitutes that subject being a HUGE and EGREGIOUS problem. And I did not say it should be changeable on the fly either. > [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > As for your comments on PvP balance. How would the ability to throttle the levels **(not in the middle of a fight, but when docked)**, mess up the PvP balance? You’re still dealing with the same skill levels 1 thru 5. Nothing fundamentally changes. ---
**Author:** ![Murasame\_Masamune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/murasame_masamune/32/375408_2.png) [@Murasame\_Masamune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Murasame_Masamune)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/167 "2023-09-04T14:16:31Z")
> [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > > [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > > > Now you’re going to dictate to me my position. Nice strawman. > > > > Not a strawman? **Quote me** saying any such thing. > > > > This is the part where you tuck tail and avoid my challenge to your willful, conscious, intentional lies. The nice thing about you is all I have to do is ask you to back up what you claim and you instantly crumble. You are child’s play. Begone. > > I’ve quoted you. Where’s your reply? Did you tuck tail and run because you’ve crumbled in the face of your own words? There has been to significant gap in time between this an any other reply I’ve made. And you didn’t even quote me saying what you claimed. So desperate for a W that you got ahead of yourself? Or are you just setting yourself up for the L because you’re such a glutton for punishment. As if I just haunt this forum 24/7 waiting in anticipation to sate your hunger for public humiliation. I guess that’s another L added to your collection. 🤭 ---
**Author:** ![Murasame\_Masamune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/murasame_masamune/32/375408_2.png) [@Murasame\_Masamune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Murasame_Masamune)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/168 "2023-09-04T14:47:07Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > > [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > > > For a Medium Armor Repairer I with Repair Systems level 1, one cycle expends 14 GJ/s. At level 5 it is 17.8 GJ/s. **Are you disagreeing with this: Yes or No?** > > This isn’t in contention. What is in contention is that you claim the L5 skilled player can’t manage this difference by turning the repper off for an average of 2.4s per completed cycle. 2.4s? No, that’s YOUR scenario which brings in medium repairers. Small repairers are a little less than that. But even in your new scenario (which is off topic), you’re claiming you can manage a module to within 2.4s of downtime consistently throughout a fight while managing targets, weapons, propulsion, transversal and any other module you might be using? And you’re at a HP/s deficit in my example, so any deviation from the 2.4s tempo, any missed click, will result in lower HP/s performance than even level 1. I already asked this question beforehand, and you fell silent on the subject. Instead deciding to indirectly talk around me to the thread at large to elicit emotional support from the audience. I assume because you couldn’t figure out how to respond and was feeling kind of low. > [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > The idea that the difference in HP/s repped between, for example, level 1 and 3 is so vast that active management to equalize L3 GJ/s to L1 GJ/s rates would be practical or humanly possible is just a complete and utter joke. That would require managing armor repairer use to within fractions of a second (0.6 for an ‘enduring’ variant) in response time. And that’s not even considering server tick. All the while engaging enemies and managing all other modules. You think normal human beings have this degree of concentration and focus to elicit the type of response time necessary (while juggling other tasks) to do what you’re proposing, server tick and all? You’re contending that what you said was actually reasonable and practical? ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/169 "2023-09-04T16:06:47Z")
I contend that managing the repper is reasonable and practical. I contend that if you could manage the repper to be offline for 2.4s after every cycle, the capacitor would always be exactly the same between the two players, but not that it is required or even beneficial to do so. It is only for the sake of illustrating that the costs over time would be the same for the same effect. In reality, nobody would want or need to do this. 2.4 seconds per completed cycle is the amount of leeway the higher level player has to turn off the repper. It can be banked into larger contiguous periods of time as long as the pilot doesn’t let the module drain his capacitor below around 25%. A player at level 5 will always have (Cycle Time \* 0.2) duration of leeway to turn off the repper per cycle that completes compared to Level 1, which they can leave to accrue to some reasonable for a human to manage length of time. The reason they have this time is because it is exactly how long it will take the level 1 to catch up to where they already are. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/170 "2023-09-04T16:08:47Z")
> [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > You think normal human beings have this degree of concentration and focus to elicit the type of response time necessary (while juggling other tasks) to do what you’re proposing, server tick and all? Most likely ‘normal human beings’ would simply skill Repair Systems to V and upgrade their fit as the skills progress to get access to much more lucrative and interesting content instead. I am pretty confident that this would not even take as much time as you have spent debating here in this topic over an arbitrary scenario which no one would waste his time with for longer than 1-2 runs before progressing. But, whatever floats your boat. Maybe take a look into passive shield fits, no cycling required, no cap usage and in the range of incoming damage you are talking about here basically everything shield fitted is probably strong enough. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/171 "2023-09-04T17:04:42Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > no cap usage And important to note even if your capacitor is sucked dry, may it be by NPCs or other capsuleer(s) the passive regen will continue indefinitely (or until ship destruction 😉) even if you happen to disconnect in the middle of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/172 "2023-09-04T17:50:34Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Maybe take a look into passive shield fits, no cycling required, no cap usage and in the range of incoming damage you are talking about here basically everything shield fitted is probably strong enough. No no you don’t understand. He is a genius and already knows all that and you are strawmanning and don’t know how to read! No one mentioned shield fits! He is doing this one specific hypothetical scenario and that is it! Get it together. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/174 "2023-09-04T23:30:42Z")
> [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > You think normal human beings have this degree of concentration and focus to elicit the type of response time necessary (while juggling other tasks) to do what you’re proposing, server tick and all? Yes, normal EVE players can manage this just fine, we have to do it with more than just reppers if we want to avoid things like wasted ammo and wasted charges in other modules and to manage things that come with weapons timers like gang links This is a pretty standard skill for EVE players to learn ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/175 "2023-09-05T00:12:20Z")
> [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > You think normal human beings have this degree of concentration and focus to elicit the type of response time necessary (while juggling other tasks) to do what you’re proposing, server tick and all? > > You’re contending that what you said was actually reasonable and practical? Last night I multiboxed seven accounts doing c5 wormhole sites. One was a prober, so he just sat cloaked up and waited for any new sigs. Of the other six, i had to juggle 4x links (set and forget once in the site), 10x Large Cap Transfers (setting up the cap chain in a new site took a while), 4x guns switching to new targets abs changing ammo as necessary, 5x selecting targets from overviews being careful not to nail the trigger for the next wave early, 1x Target Painter, 2x Webs, 3x Scrams, assisting drones, switching drones, and a total of 13 large remote armour reps and one medium which had to be cycled regularly depending on who was getting shot. Making sure to turn off reps from the targeted ship so as not to cap out and bring down the whole cap chain (wormhole sites have significant neut pressure). And keep an eye on the probe scanner to check for new sigs. If I can manage all of that, you should be able to manage one lone local rep. Cry, scream, attack and gaslight all you like, the only problem here is you. The skill is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Gideon\_Finkk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gideon_finkk/32/385077_2.png) [@Gideon\_Finkk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gideon_Finkk)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/176 "2023-09-05T09:53:45Z")
You can actually extract that skill. Its not permanent. Skill Extractors my dude. ---
**Author:** ![Amaranth\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amaranth_amatin/32/454274_2.png) [@Amaranth\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amaranth_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/177 "2023-09-05T11:52:32Z")
just cycle it manually 4Head ---
**Author:** ![Murasame\_Masamune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/murasame_masamune/32/375408_2.png) [@Murasame\_Masamune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Murasame_Masamune)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/178 "2023-09-05T19:21:33Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > I contend that managing the repper is reasonable and practical. I contend that if you could manage the repper to be offline for 2.4s after every cycle, the capacitor would always be exactly the same between the two players, but not that it is required or even beneficial to do so. It is only for the sake of illustrating that the costs over time would be the same for the same effect. “IF” you _could_ does not matter? What matters is **“CAN YOU?”**. And the answer is: **NO**. It’s not humanly possible. So, you were talking fairytales. What you just did is concede. > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Last night I multiboxed seven accounts doing c5 wormhole sites. Apples and oranges. Simply piloting multiple ships is not the same as timing a module’s uptime/downtime to get the GJ/s used to an exact amount as to mimic the exact performance of that module at a lower skill level. Your easy mode content has nothing to do with what we’re discussing. You play as to not have any actual challenge or threat of loss. You have plenty of leeway to manage those ships as you’re not under any credible threat or time constraint. That is a far cry from managing one particular module in a way as to make it perform at the exact same level of said module at a lower skill level, consistently managing it within 0.3 to 1.2s in my scenario, and also handling everything else. This in a scenario where you can actually loss, are at a HP deficit and don’t have the luxury of out tanking incoming DPS (i.e. all the time in the world). You are not doing that. It’s not humanly possible, especially with server tick. When multiboxing, the fact that you are switching between ships and take the time to activate and deactivate all the modules tells you right then and there that you are under no real pressure and no strict fraction-of-a-second timetable. You’re just piloting normally while switching between ships. Why do you keep running headfirst into these L’s? Be careful where you place them when space gets limited. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/179 "2023-09-05T20:41:36Z")
I’m going to be blunt here; at this point you’re just trolling. Your problem is of your own making, people have told you how to solve it and you’ve blithely dismissed their solutions because they acknowledge how things actually work which apparently conflicts with how you think things should work. Begone. ---
**Author:** ![Murasame\_Masamune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/murasame_masamune/32/375408_2.png) [@Murasame\_Masamune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Murasame_Masamune)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/180 "2023-09-06T13:18:57Z")
😁 Now people are getting my post placed on ignore to avoid dealing with the fact that they can’t refute my arguments while I destroy theirs. Looks like I win. ---
**Author:** ![Murasame\_Masamune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/murasame_masamune/32/375408_2.png) [@Murasame\_Masamune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Murasame_Masamune)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/181 "2023-09-06T13:19:33Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Your problem is of your own making What problem would that be? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892/182 "2023-09-06T15:28:03Z")
> [@Murasame\_Masamune](#): > > Looks like I win. This topic looks more like a bad case of Dunning-Kruger than like a winning scenario for you. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-is-the-repair-systems-skill-a-two-edged-sword/415892.md?page=10)