# Why newbies don't stay **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100 "2019-06-27T14:24:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/286 "2019-06-30T09:08:29Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > advert feature lies But… But all marketting is truth! ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/287 "2019-06-30T09:10:29Z")
Wait a second, just exactly how long have you been playing this game? I ask that because back when I started playing over 11 years ago most of the player pirates would catch ships and demand a ransom payment in lieu of destroying and podding them. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/288 "2019-06-30T09:10:58Z")
And then pod them anyway for the tears. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/289 "2019-06-30T09:12:19Z")
Yeah, a few did that but most of the player pirates would honor the parley. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/290 "2019-06-30T09:16:31Z")
Your experience of then differs wildly from mine. The Somali Yacht Club gave no quarter I ever saw. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/291 "2019-06-30T09:30:10Z")
I really don’t give a frack what you say, back then there were lot’s of blogs and guides written about piracy and most of them emphasized the importance of honoring parley and ransoms, the most notable guide being from a player pirate named Verone. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/292 "2019-06-30T09:37:07Z")
Uh ok. Some one steal your sandwich there Ross? No need to be so snippy. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine\_Deer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jasmine_deer/32/206152_2.png) [@Jasmine\_Deer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jasmine_Deer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/293 "2019-06-30T09:44:13Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Yeah, a few did that but most of the player pirates would honor the parley. That is what I remember as well. Even when I refused to pay on principle or because the ransom seemed disproportionate to the loss and I duly lost my ship no one ever podded me. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/294 "2019-06-30T10:56:50Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Wait a second, just exactly how long have you been playing this game? 9 years. Honouring or not honouring ransome hasn’t changed much. You think EVERY pirate honoured ransomes 10 years ago? Of course not. Edit- one difference today may be that asking people to sing to keep their pod is considered torture. But ask yourself, what has podding or not got to do with being a ‘good pvp’er’? Of course nothing… Christ, you’re gonna let someone keep coming back to fight you using his high-grade slaves because your ‘honobru!’. Meanwhile when you lose a fight you risk your pod. Think about how you may be handicapping yourselves there. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/295 "2019-06-30T11:07:55Z")
> [@Jasmine\_Deer](#): > > Even when I refused to pay on principle or because the ransom seemed disproportionate to the loss and I duly lost my ship no one ever podded me. Ummm, your killboard… ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/296 "2019-06-30T12:12:34Z")
Um, yes it has changed a lot since then. 10 years ago most player pirates honored the ransom parley, mainly because they were looking to make ISK, not pad their KillMail stats. Not sure why you’re bringing up implants, that’s not even the point of this convo. How do you even know if a character has implants or not? You don’t. Ever since CCP made Pod KillMails show ISK value, it’s all about getting that pod kill now just to boost KillMail stats even more. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/297 "2019-06-30T12:18:52Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Um, yes it has changed a lot since then. 10 years ago most player pirates honored the ransom parley, mainly because they were looking to make ISK, not pad their KillMail stats. It really hasn’t mate. Rose tinted glasses. I know there were some high profile pirates and the guides you mention back then but that doesn’t mean everyone followed suit. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Not sure why you’re bringing up implants, that’s not even the point of this convo. How do you even know if a character has implants or not? You don’t. Ever since CCP made Pod KillMails show ISK value, it’s all about getting that pod kill now just to boost KillMail stats even more. If losing pods has nothing to do with implants why is he salty over pod killers? Does he prefer slow-boating home rather than taking the pod express? Does he take the scenic route? Please tell me why pvp’ers are bad people for podding someone with no implants. And it’s true you can’t tell if someone has implants or not, so you pod them to make sure. And does it matter of its about killmails or not? I fit a sebo on my ships to get the pod, and that was before pod killmails. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/298 "2019-06-30T12:46:18Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Um, yes it has changed a lot since then. 10 years ago most player pirates honored the ransom parley, mainly because they were looking to make ISK, not pad their KillMail stats. > > It really hasn’t mate. Rose tinted glasses. > > I know there were some high profile pirates and the guides you mention back then but that doesn’t mean everyone followed suit. I never said all Pirates did it and please, enough with the cynicism. Rose Tinted Glasses indeed. Also back then the names of Pirates that didn’t honor the parley were made public and after a while they couldn’t collect ransom payments even if they wanted to. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Not sure why you’re bringing up implants, that’s not even the point of this convo. How do you even know if a character has implants or not? You don’t. Ever since CCP made Pod KillMails show ISK value, it’s all about getting that pod kill now just to boost KillMail stats even more. > > If losing pods has nothing to do with implants why is he salty over pod killers? > > Does he prefer slow-boating home rather than taking the pod express? Does he take the scenic route? > > Please tell me why pvp’ers are bad people for podding someone with no implants. > > And it’s true you can’t tell if someone has implants or not, so you pod them to make sure. And does it matter of its about killmails or not? I fit a sebo on my ships to get the pod, and that was before pod killmails. I can’t speak for him but his remark was about CODE and other wanna be PvP’ers podding players in High Sec. Back before Security Tags were implemented into the game, recovering Security Status to re-enter High Sec was a long process of ratting in Low Sec. Most gankers back then didn’t want the extra strong Security Hit associated with podding in High Sec since that reduced the amount of time they could spend in High Sec getting more ship kills. But since that’s no longer the case and Security Tags can be easily obtained, it’s all about padding KillMail stats now, an action that some players think denotes them as an elite pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/299 "2019-06-30T13:02:34Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Also back then the names of Pirates that didn’t honor the parley were made public and after a while they couldn’t collect ransom payments even if they wanted to. Ok. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I can’t speak for him but his remark was about CODE and other wanna be PvP’ers podding players in High Sec. But you jumped in anyways… Hisec, lowsec what does it matter? Why are they bad pvp’ers for podding? > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Back before Security Tags were implemented into the game, recovering Security Status to re-enter High Sec was a long process of ratting in Low Sec. Most gankers back then didn’t want the extra strong Security Hit associated with podding in High Sec since that reduced the amount of time they could spend in High Sec getting more ship kills. > > But since that’s no longer the case and Security Tags can be easily obtained, it’s all about padding KillMail stats now, an action that some players think denotes them as an elite pilot. What has this got to do with being a bad pvp’er and pod killing? And you should go read the thread where these tags were announced. The gankers didn’t really give a crap. They don’t need a positive sec status to do what they do. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/300 "2019-06-30T13:14:37Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Right away the corp advert feature lies to new players. Corps can say they are active 24/7 and do everything. Pvp, mining, explore, fleet war, small gang, wormholes, hisec etc when the reality is it’s one guy and his alts that log on a few hours a week in AUS timezone… > > - First thing I’d change about the god damn corp adverts is the option to tie a Corp Activity Tracker to your advert. New players can see if you’re legit or they can see if you are hiding your activity for whatever reason. This is an excellent idea and CCP needs to implement something along these lines - for their own good, if not the players. It’s been well known for years that the social aspects and interactions keep players loyal to a game long after most game content has become routine. A ‘rating system’ of sorts for corps, so that new players can see _and rank_ which corps are engaged and active and successful in which activities, and even which ones are getting stomped. Not only would this assist players in finding ‘the right corp’, if there was a visible ranking/tracking/comparison system for corps then this would _encourage corp activity_ in specific areas. It could easily also lead to the every-elusive ‘emergent gameplay’ as corps compete to rank better than other corps in certain areas. Two thumbs up for @Daichi_Yamato! ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/301 "2019-06-30T13:29:29Z")
> [@Kashara](#): > > one of them being that everything took forever, even undocking made me wait to the point I wanted to claw my eyeballs out. And then the endless travel times. ho yes ! Travel times in BS are > **so** > > sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo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■■■■■■■ long. I remember it was completely awful when I had to warp in osmon in a rattlesnake. 10s align, 90s to warp to the first gate, 10s to jump. same for next system. Almost 4 minutes before I even can start doing that mission !!! 90AU osmon, 110 korsiki, 50 nuken … please kill me. ---
**Author:** ![Sordina](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sordina/32/148069_2.png) [@Sordina](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sordina)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/302 "2019-06-30T13:33:12Z")
“Why newbies don’t stay” - because CCP can’t read. If they would read at least from one day rookie help logs they will find dozens things that are broken and many people are rage quit because of that from years. Exploration career agent is misleading from at least I was staring with EVE and it was 4 years ago. Each day I see at least few people that cant understand exploration tutorial. But, hey. It’s better to monetize SP that will be trashed at first lvl 5 skill and help with nothing. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/303 "2019-06-30T13:50:16Z")
I never said they were bad, but if their KM’s only show easy gank kills in High Sec then yeah, they’re padding KM stats for some sort of Epeen rep. My whole reason for ‘Jumping in’ was to point out that the ‘Status Quo’ has changed along with the mentality behind it due to various game changes over the years. I’m not gonna repeat myself again, I already explained the ‘Cause and Effect’ for that change. As for the thread you mentioned, I highly doubt you read the whole damn thing within the past couple of minutes. More importantly why would a bunch of gankers speak out about something that clearly gives them an edge to quickly get back into high sec for more KM stats. By the way, who said anything about needing positive standing to re-enter High Sec space? ---
**Author:** ![Tau\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tau_phoenix/32/440375_2.png) [@Tau\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tau_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/304 "2019-06-30T14:04:26Z")
My thoughts exactly. I would love to see a breakdown of players retention vs age of players, this would probably show this to be true. Unfortunately, Eve is a game where time investment and patience is needed. So, to solve this problem is a dark dark path. Give the kids the option to buy the instant gratification to level up (and we have already seen a small example of this with the latest DLC to purchase SP). I do not like where this path may lead. Sure, it may be a good income generator for CCP but it will turn the game into a ‘short lived’ game once the thrill of instant gratification has gone. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/305 "2019-06-30T14:14:03Z")
> [@Tau\_Phoenix](#): > > Give the kids the option to buy the instant gratification to level up I actually think the abyss, which does allow player to play PVE for a small amount of time without being punished, is a very good improvement to the old “L4 mission that requires 1H to do with low skills, including 10min warp time”. It’s not about instant gratification, it’s about choosing the time one wants to invest in the game. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100.md?page=16)