# Why newbies don't stay **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100 "2019-06-27T14:24:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/306 "2019-06-30T14:27:54Z")
Kinda of had this discussion with someone on Teamspeak about retention… Within that discussion the EvE learning curve was brought up… My answer to that was thus: Compared to almost all other games out there, players used to how those operate enjoy slotting quarters into them to play. However when they come to EvE, they forget RL lessons and all that jazz, despite reading up on the game beforehand. Risk Mitigation is one of the if not the most important CORE part of EvE online. And over the years I myself have witnessed that those without 1% shred of Risk Mitigation for this game will not make it. Like seriously think about…if you took away the loss of all you own when destroyed by NPC or player…all the arguments of EvE being too difficult would melt away, and so too would the Steepness of the Learning Curve…but then EvE would be dead. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/307 "2019-06-30T15:30:18Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > 10 years ago most player pirates honored the ransom parley, mainly because they were looking to make ISK, not pad their KillMail stats. Did you ask all the pirates? No? Means you’re talking bullshite, as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/308 "2019-06-30T17:57:21Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > And you should go read the thread where these tags were announced. The gankers didn’t really give a crap. They don’t need a positive sec status to do what they do. Tornado gankers do need security status levels that enable them to loiter, nothing to do with positive status… The tags were a massive help to them, and saying that it is not is just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/309 "2019-06-30T18:26:32Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > 10 years ago most player pirates honored the ransom parley, mainly because they were looking to make ISK, not pad their KillMail stats. > > Did you ask all the pirates? No? Means you’re talking bullshite, as usual. Dude, as usual you don’t even bother to correctly read the statement. I said most, not all. More importantly did you? Hell no you didn’t, you weren’t even playing this game back then so if anyone is talking bullshite here it’s you. Now go away Newbie, the Veterans are talking here. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/310 "2019-06-30T18:40:05Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Now go away Newbie, the Veterans are talking here. You mispelled bittervet and ranting. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/311 "2019-06-30T19:34:39Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Now go away Newbie, the Veterans are talking here. > > You mispelled bittervet and ranting. Oh really? 🤔 Guess you would know since you’re the resident expert in that field. Oh by the way, you misspelt ‘misspelled’. 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/312 "2019-06-30T19:49:33Z")
> [@dewk](#): > > Any good PVP player tend to go for the more interest fights and almost never pod kill, unless the enemy just pisses them off after the fight. I don’t get it, why would you not pod. The pod is the best part of the ship, you never know what you get. It’s basically a non-microtransaction surprise mechanic and you know people love surprises. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/313 "2019-06-30T20:00:42Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > The pod is the best part of the ship, you never know what you get. Only thing a pod drops is a corpse. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/314 "2019-06-30T20:26:59Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > The pod is the best part of the ship, you never know what you get It is like the Kinder surprise egg. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/315 "2019-06-30T20:35:04Z")
it’s like taunting bittervets, it drops lots of salt. Makes the game tasty. Makes your day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Quor\_Dresden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quor_dresden/32/277545_2.png) [@Quor\_Dresden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quor_Dresden)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/316 "2019-06-30T20:39:28Z")
Learning curve plain and simple. I dont think one more second should be wasted on the games intro. Either people will commit to it or be scared once they get an idea of how complex the game is. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/317 "2019-06-30T21:36:50Z")
Complex? Scratch the surface, it’s wide as ocean but deep as puddle. It’s just enourmous batch of infomation you have to digest to discover that. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/318 "2019-06-30T22:32:42Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > but if their KM’s only show easy gank kills in High Sec then yeah, they’re padding KM stats for some sort of Epeen rep. So? Would it be better if they were doing it for fun instead? What’s the difference? What is your problem with killboard padding? Killboard padding only matters to those who also pad their killboard so why so offended? What has that got to do with this thread? > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > My whole reason for ‘Jumping in’ was to point out that the ‘Status Quo’ has changed along with the mentality behind it due to various game changes over the years. Groovy but nonsense. Also nothing to do with what i was talking about or new players. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > As for the thread you mentioned, I highly doubt you read the whole damn thing within the past couple of minutes. More importantly why would a bunch of gankers speak out about something that clearly gives them an edge to quickly get back into high sec for more KM stats. I remember it well. But you should look it up. No one said anything about gankers being upset. I specifically said they didn’t give a crap. Career gankers don’t really use them. They are quite happy operating at -10. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/319 "2019-06-30T23:42:38Z")
Heh, man you just keep on digging. Well, I’m not going to go back and dissect every little word to refute whatever it is that you’re trying to prove here. I’ve been in this game a few years longer than you so that probably explains why you don’t recall most Pirate Players doing ransom parley instead of immediately going for a KillMail. Or the fact that most of them didn’t even bother with Pod Kill in High Sec due to the large standing hit it incurred which required a long and tedious grind of ratting in Low Sec just to get back into High Sec. Or the fact that the main form of non-consensual PvP was done with Can Flipping, not Suicide Ganking. Oh and by the way, I never said anything about gankers being upset in the thread that you didn’t read yet remember oh so well. Maybe you should re-read just exactly what I wrote instead of doing selective quoting in an attempt to prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/320 "2019-06-30T23:54:55Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Maybe you should re-read just exactly what I wrote instead of doing selective quoting in an attempt to prove me wrong. Is that irony ? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/321 "2019-07-01T00:20:13Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Well, I’m not going to go back and dissect every little word to refute whatever it is that you’re trying to prove here. What am i trying to prove? I’m not the one throwing a wobbler about killboard padding or pod killing. I’m asking why shooting pods makes you a bad pvp’er? I can’t imagine it looks good for the npe if players are going to be intolerant of players that, god forbid, shoot pods! > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I’ve been in this game a few years longer than you so that probably explains why you don’t recall most Pirate Players doing ransom parley instead of immediately going for a KillMail. ‘_Can’t prove it so I’ll pull out my e-peen_’ Well that’s settled that then. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Or the fact that the main form of non-consensual PvP was done with Can Flipping, not Suicide Ganking. And now you’ve brought up non-consensual pvp and can flipping, and suicide ganking… Mate. All i asked was why does shooting pods make you a bad pvp’er… > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Oh and by the way, I never said anything about gankers being upset in the thread that you didn’t read yet remember oh so well. Maybe you should re-read just exactly what I wrote instead of doing selective quoting in an attempt to prove me wrong. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > More importantly why would a bunch of gankers speak out about something that clearly gives them an edge to quickly get back into high sec for more KM stats. Lol alright then. I didn’t say gankers would speak out. I said they didn’t give a crap. And they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Octavech\_Raholan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octavech_raholan/32/373797_2.png) [@Octavech\_Raholan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octavech_Raholan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/322 "2019-07-01T05:26:47Z")
The ‘tears’ culture itself. This. This is the answer to the post’s question. ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 6:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/323 "2019-07-01T06:01:22Z")
Maybe a separate chat channel should be ran for each type of game play, Mining, PvE, Exploration, Abyssal and Wormhole. In order to keep away from being wardecced to death the channels would have to be operated by players in NPC corporations. Player guided tutorials where experienced players set up missions for the newbie such as a 4-3-3-1 or four security missions + three system wide rat belting missions + three mining missions and one Tier 1 Abyssal site could be a lesson plan where the graduating factor to the next grade of tutorial would be to run the 433 for five weeks with the graduating test being a Tier 1 Abyssal site after the player has built enough ISK to purchase their first Abyssal Tier 1 ship. Then the next class would continually step the new player up until they were playing comfortably on their own. I think Mike Azzariath of the Magic Bus would be a good player to get something like this going. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/324 "2019-07-01T06:03:26Z")
> [@DrysonBennington](#): > > . In order to keep away from being wardecced to death the channels would have to be operated by players in NPC corporations. Why would this be needed? ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 6:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/325 "2019-07-01T06:11:15Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > > > The pod is the best part of the ship, you never know what you get. > > Only thing a pod drops is a corpse. It’s not all about the ISK, I play for the fun. And poding people is fun. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100.md?page=17)