# Why newbies don't stay **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100 "2019-06-27T14:24:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/347 "2019-07-01T14:00:15Z")
I have seen many people throw barbs at other players and look down on them for not min/maxing ISK generation, I have had it done to me. There is no insult at all in that sentence and you are wrong to flag it. Seriously don’t do it, there are enough people false flagging stuff without people like yourself doing it. > [@](#): > > No it´s not just you… but you know… everything that takes any kind of effort these dasy and does not result in max isk/h is a waste of time for most ppl I do not understand you flagging that, please don’t, I read your posts because you have a decent brain, I read his posts because he has a decent brain, leave the false flag rubbish to CODE alts please. PS There is no need to reply to this as this is an off-topic personal request to you. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/348 "2019-07-01T14:16:15Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I have seen many people throw barbs at other players and look down on them for not min/maxing ISK generation, I have had it done to me. As I explained already before, a lot of notions in Eve can’t be measure by objective data. eg fun, etc. The isk/h is one metric that can be very helpful to enhance your activities, eg comparing some choices with other ones. Isk and time invested are objective and commonly shared values of worth / requirement of an activity. Talking isk/h is not greed. It’s talking a common language. People can talk isk/h, give you advice about your ship, without making a single isk during the hour they give you advices. Talking isk/h is not a proof of greed - it’s a proof of intelligence. Just like using the abstraction called as “numbers” is a way to communicate between people. Of course, that only applies as long as the goal is to communicate and share information. If the goal is to look down over people then it’s but the ruin of the soul. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I do not understand you flagging that, please don’t, I read your posts because you have a decent brain, I read his posts because he has a decent brain, leave the false flag rubbish to CODE alts please. My issue is that generalizing over a sample data is an intrinsically bad way to perform inference. Just like if I said “CODE. ppl I noticed on the forum are dumb, therefore all CODE. members are dumb”. That would be insulting for all the CODE. members that are not dumb - or the ones I don’t look at the posts. (BTW your previous post was not insulting). ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/349 "2019-07-01T14:32:30Z")
This min/max issue, a while back when I first started as Dracvlad I went to nullsec but decided to concentrate in NPC nullsec as I wanted to play in a story time thing and do more small gang stuff, instead of the more alliance focussed stuff in my previous start, though I ended up with a lot more solo stuff with that character. But I digress. I really got into this Hub Zero, it was a living and breathing small group against enemies. So I was rather proud of myself operating in this and I went on the forums because I was belt ratting in a contested system with people coming after me and I was making 20m an hour. When I said that I got a load of min/max fanatics tell me how useless I was at Eve. However I had so much fun doing this. I was having to play smart and mix it up use bookmarks, trick them and so on, I have to be very aware of what was around me and play to my strengths, I had to know all the tricks that they used to try to catch you like bubbles and stuff. Who was being smart, me or the people in major alliances sitting behind local intel and doing Sanctums. In ISK terms well them, but for fun I won hands down. PvE is of course not fun, but operating like that to earn ISK when you have people actively hunting you is damn good fun and is why I stayed in the game. Who was intelligent, me or them. I looked down on the person telling me I was bad because I was not min/maxing on ISK, but I was min/maxing on fun. Bit of a difference, and I would suggest this is also why many news players do not stay either. That was in 2010, I don’t think what I did is possible now, with fast warping ceptors, loads of people using BLOPS, the reduction on reprocessing as I replaced ships losses this way, it is part of the game that is lost. So when I tell you that his post was legitimate to criticise people who blindly min/max ISK I would agree with him. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > My issue is that generalizing over a sample data is an intrinsically bad way to perform inference. It is an opinion and I think pretty relevant in terms of this discussion, I was in fact playing as a new player in 2009 when I started again, I stopped in 2007. So a two year break and I started fresh. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Just like if I said “CODE. ppl I noticed on the forum are dumb, therefore all CODE. members are dumb”. That would be insulting for all the CODE. members that are not dumb - or the ones I don’t look at the posts. I have never said CODE are dumb. In fact some of them are pretty smart and the way CODE is setup is pretty damn smart too. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > (BTW your previous post was not insulting). I know, I realised it was not you, in any case that post could be deemed as off-topic, so if they flag it a second time an ISD will look at it, no biggie on whether they leave it ignored or not. But please try to refrain from doing this, it breaks up the flow of the forums for more mature players like myself and as I respect your point of view and the view of the person you flagged it broke up my appreciation of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/350 "2019-07-01T15:42:23Z")
> [@Jasmine\_Deer](#): > > Maybe because you want to have a conversation with the player while they are still in the system ? Or you know exchange a “gf” or something in local ? Or give them a chance to re-ship nearby and have another round of PvP? Yeah sure, you can do that, but that are pretty strange reasons to not look inside the pod by cracking it open. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/351 "2019-07-01T16:14:14Z")
> [@DrysonBennington](#): > > Player guided tutorials where experienced players set up missions for the newbie Can I join your channel, please, pretty please!!!? My tinfoil hat skills are way below par. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/352 "2019-07-01T16:22:25Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Edit - I can report myself! I do it all the time. It guarentees people will read your post. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/353 "2019-07-01T16:25:17Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > for more mature players like myself Snicker … Still got me blocked? ---
**Author:** ![Megan\_Maynard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/megan_maynard/32/306815_2.png) [@Megan\_Maynard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Megan_Maynard)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/354 "2019-07-01T16:50:33Z")
This entire problem could be resolved with some decent tutorials… I can’t count the number of “experienced” players that have no clue what the orbit function does in pvp or pve. Or how many FC’s have regulated fleet combat to “follow this person, don’t do anything we don’t tell you to do”. Or you know, how about we finally get a UI for cockpit view that isn’t total trash? That’s all pvp. Now you get into pve, mining, diplo, exploration, etc, etc, etc…and you quickly realize how inadequate the tutorials are. ---
**Author:** ![Baaldor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baaldor/32/461993_2.png) [@Baaldor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baaldor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/355 "2019-07-01T18:00:04Z")
the part about the FC’s…you have to really understand why they say that, not to bring special snowflake ships and why running round like a bunch of rabid monkeys is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/356 "2019-07-01T18:02:00Z")
> [@Baaldor](#): > > not to bring special snowflake ships _“Hej FC, can I bring my drake?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/357 "2019-07-01T18:05:16Z")
> [@Megan\_Maynard](#): > > Or how many FC’s have regulated fleet combat to “follow this person, don’t do anything we don’t tell you to do”. Yeah no one runs a fleet like that. Its just silly. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/6/c62688da3aa6d2c96917e2f2408c43d5cce0423e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Accountant\_VanRaven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_accountant_vanraven/32/144707_2.png) [@The\_Accountant\_VanRaven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Accountant_VanRaven)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/358 "2019-07-01T19:09:53Z")
Kashara, Is there data to back this up? Just curious. The best, The Accountant ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/359 "2019-07-01T23:55:47Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Yeah no one runs a fleet like that. Its just silly. Come on, generals in the past have always preferred the “go-get’er” types that just like to run randomly all over the battlefield with no clear plan, direction, load-out, target or coordination… ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/360 "2019-07-02T00:40:29Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/e/1e27cd71ae9c21976347cb35588af051586210b2.jpeg) dewk: > > > CODE and other optimistic noobe gankers don’t think that way, they’re only interested in zkill ratings. Sad thing is when you look at their zkills they’re a joke, you can tell by the low lvl kills and the fact they pod kill. > > Any good PVP player tend to go for the more interest fights and almost never pod kill, unless the enemy just pisses them off after the fight. > > Any good pvp player doesn’t pod kill? > > Yeah, this is what I mean…new players being told their arse holes for not being ‘honorable’. > > Such tolerance. Much freedom. > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/e/1e27cd71ae9c21976347cb35588af051586210b2.jpeg) dewk: > > > If a noobe is seen in need of help these **carebears** will offer help in many different ways, as most know what is like to be a noobe. > > Have you met @Naari_Naarian Honorable fights is when you know you got a live one 🤣 @dewk if you are having honorable fights in EVE you are doing it wrong. I’m not joking or trolling, PvP in EVE is not just the fight it is the STRATEGY that led up to the fight. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/361 "2019-07-02T00:44:47Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > @dewk if you are having honorable fights in EVE you are doing it wrong. I’m not joking or trolling, PvP in EVE is not just the fight it is the STRATEGY that led up to the fight. Yep…anyone that EVER says this in regards to anything related to warfare is (sorry Dewk) delusional. > If you’re in a fair fight, you didn’t plan it properly. > — Nick Lappos, Chief R&D Pilot, Sikorsky Aircraft ---
**Author:** ![Caldari\_Citizen\_93121628](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caldari_citizen_93121628/32/144732_2.png) [@Caldari\_Citizen\_93121628](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caldari_Citizen_93121628)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/362 "2019-07-02T01:02:14Z")
I came here from console land, lured by the amazing stories on sites like PC Gamer, Kotaku, even Cracked. I may not stay, but, it seems to me that any friend/gamer I speak with about games with incredible lore, this is THE game. Nothing out there can touch what the community has created, even if it is a crazy, insane, scary creation. What’s more, the stories just keep coming. Remember when DayZ came out and everyone was sweating over the stories/experiences coming out of play sessions? Yeah, not so much any more. PUBG, same thing. Obviously, not great comparables, but you hopefully are catching my drift. Anyways, I don’t know what my future holds, besides a moderate-to-high amount of grinding at some point, but I do know that at least I can set my own course. Until someone griefs me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Accountant\_VanRaven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_accountant_vanraven/32/144707_2.png) [@The\_Accountant\_VanRaven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Accountant_VanRaven)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/363 "2019-07-02T02:42:19Z")
I mean we never got to Jovian space. That was a promised never delivered ☹ I never got to dock in a Jovian base and christen the laboratories with some foulness ---
**Author:** ![dewk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dewk/32/168218_2.png) [@dewk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/dewk)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/364 "2019-07-02T04:35:24Z")
Depends. If you loose your ship stuck in null or wormhole space with no friendly stations anywhere nearby, you wish you had been pod’ed, so what’s worse a quick death or an long boring pod flight? And in Wormholes its worse as if you had managed to scan down wormholes, you may not have done in the next wormhole, and we all know how hard it is to navigate through wormholes without probes, now think of trying in a pod. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/365 "2019-07-02T07:38:57Z")
> [@Caldari\_Citizen\_93121628](#): > > Until someone griefs me. And how you deal with it will decide whether you make the next story yourself, or you leave… the page blank. ---
**Author:** ![Caldari\_Citizen\_93121628](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caldari_citizen_93121628/32/144732_2.png) [@Caldari\_Citizen\_93121628](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caldari_Citizen_93121628)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/366 "2019-07-02T12:47:57Z")
Truth to power. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100.md?page=19)