# Why newbies don't stay **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100 "2019-06-27T14:24:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ophidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ophidia/32/143872_2.png) [@Ophidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ophidia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/141 "2019-06-28T10:16:17Z")
Good points. Its frustrating for a new players to lose 50mil isk. Thats alot of lvl 1 and 2 missions loot. The way that I ses it, suicide terrorist are a bunch of pussies who cant take it in null or low sec. ---
**Author:** ![Ophidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ophidia/32/143872_2.png) [@Ophidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ophidia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/142 "2019-06-28T10:18:41Z")
Back To alts, maybe place restictions ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/143 "2019-06-28T11:05:59Z")
> [@Kashara](#): > > New players stop playing because of a lack of guidance. I hope not to derail the thread, but I just wanted to point out some things that I think are relevant: CCPs data shows **most new players** quit within something like 2 hours. I don’t think this is long enough for ‘guidance’ to become an issue. If you liked the idea of a game enough to download and install it, then within 2 hours, quit playing, one of several things is happening: 1. You are a game junkie, you just DL anything that pops to mind, try it out, if it grabs you, great, if not you quit and DL the next game. 2. You found the game to be confusing, difficult, or somehow frustrating. Since the game is not providing a good experience for you, you quit and move on. 3. You have heard stories about ‘the EVE universe’, you hear about the huge battles, the dog-eat-dog struggle for dominance, the beautiful space scenes and ships, the wars between factions. You start the game and it quickly becomes clear to you that you are _not_ in the universe you imagined. The reality of the game and your first impressions is not matching the expectations you had. 4. You can deal with the mechanics, you can deal with the UI, you aren’t expecting anything wonderful to happen right away, but you just find the starter experience, the ship control, the graphics whatever… to be boring and lacklustre. Nothing interesting/engaging is happening. You’re in a boring tutorial with minimal engagement and you give it a couple hours, then quit. To my mind, these are the true hurdles the new player faces. Not ganking. Not high sec PvP. Not thousands of crap corps. But specifically… poor interface, a mismatch of expectations with the reality, nothing that really engages you _with_ your expecations, and finally, boring and uninspired gameplay and NPE design. CCP has spent years wasting their development budget on side projects that fail, games they can’t actualize, content nobody wanted or uses, and game updates that steer the game away from its core and off into some weird “everybody wants to be a cog in a huge corp” vision. It’s time they spent a few million and a years development effort making sure that the first 5 hours of game time for a new user is **accessible, interesting, and engaging**. After that a little work on the cash shop (well OK a _lot_) and player progression paths, and the game will take care of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Kashara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kashara/32/143900_2.png) [@Kashara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kashara)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/145 "2019-06-28T16:26:00Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You found the game to be confusing, difficult, or somehow frustrating. Since the game is not providing a good experience for you, you quit and move on. I think all of your points are valid. Reworking the UI or building in “instant hooks” are things I have no clue how to do, but regarding point 2, this is what I was trying to get at. If you really narrow down the path for new players, and then gradually open the world for them, you do them a great service. Cutting the noise is terribly difficult if you have no clue which bits in this vast ocean of information are relevant and which not. Newbies start at an academy station. Why not go one step further and actually do proper briefings and education there? Have an NPC interview and analyze the player. Ask the right questions to find a fitting profile, then continue down that road with a tailor-made program to get them down that path and make some progress. So someone’s the PVP type, go through ships and fittings, then guide them along some PVP-related things. You can teach players how to PVP with PVE these days, the AI is already advanced enough to have them do a few mock fights, even make them lose their ship and pod, then pick them up again. It’s 2019, rats are reinforcing stations in null and drive whole coalitions back to their home regions, surely they can build a great educational curriculum, according to the profile data from the initial briefings/interviews. And that’s just one example, and I’m not a gamedev… I’m sure devs can come up with some cool stuff. I liked a lot of ideas in this thread, the “activity funnel” thing was nice, and getting the community in touch is very valuable for newbie retention. I hope CCP takes a look at this thread some time. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/146 "2019-06-28T16:26:49Z")
> [@Mina\_Sebiestar](#): > > Shoehorning them this way or that cant be solution in a sandbox, > NPE doesn’t provide path to PVP and PVE they connect with is a 2003 era disaster. > That in mind Parts of high sec need to be more secure than it is and part of it needs to be less secure. > Info about risk and general info should be all around them instead of that moron in hangar billboards with clear vision some actual info should be displayed. > > “Niarja high sec system raided by suicide terrorist pods lost 27, ship lost 35 in last \_\_\_ hours” > “Triglavians raiding this and that here and there material cost to date 13 trillion and one isk” > “Dont fly what you cant afford to lose” > “Ready to undock?” > “This week Pods lost in High sec\_\_\_\_” > “This week Ship lost in High sec\_\_\_\_” > …on it goes. Or they could you know, use the map??? People, try to lrn2play before you post dumb ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Sebiestar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_sebiestar/32/502522_2.png) [@Mina\_Sebiestar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Sebiestar)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/147 "2019-06-28T17:04:44Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Or they could you know, use the map??? > > People, try to lrn2play before you post dumb ideas. Dont be salty old hag,new players struggle with many things when they start “Where are my drones” “Where is my cargo bay” Advanced map properties zen mastering isn’t really to be expected. But providing that info in easy to obtain way a la useless station billboards is a net gain. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/148 "2019-06-28T17:10:21Z")
To be fair, it’s not a bad idea; most new players not knowing their arses from their elbows. Station billboards are currently underutilised and the sort of integration @Mina_Sebiestar is talking about could be done under the guise of Scope bulletins broadcast region-wide; done right it wouldn’t be immersion breaking and provide easily accessible information to all who want it. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/149 "2019-06-28T17:25:10Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > To be fair, it’s not a bad idea Yes it is, it is free intel just like local, and for what, it won’t change anything. The new players who are not emotionally defeated when their ship is blown up will continue, the ones are emotionally defeated will quit. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/150 "2019-06-28T17:31:10Z")
I can see why some would see it as a bad thing, especially from a PvP perspective; I’m not a PvP player, so my perspective is probably a little different than yours. I don’t agree with your opinion, but I do understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/151 "2019-06-28T17:36:02Z")
To me this is not really different **in it’s effect** than putting a red/green light on the gate. Green is safe Red means gate is camped ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/152 "2019-06-28T17:40:57Z")
That all depends on how detailed the information given is, and it should be somewhat delayed as the map is now. Realtime is bad, I’d agree on that X podkills in a specific system is too much. X podkills in a constellation or group of constellations is more general. Somewhat useful to most, really useful to those that look further. ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Sebiestar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_sebiestar/32/502522_2.png) [@Mina\_Sebiestar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Sebiestar)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/153 "2019-06-28T17:41:19Z")
Map is delayed info used to get some awareness of what is going on outside Pros will get lotsa info of it through game knowledge Noobs will be aware that ships are getting killed left m right in high sec. Map is there since game early days same as local that doesn’t have anything with this discussion anyway. Hi is throwing a tantrum let him. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/154 "2019-06-28T17:45:51Z")
> [@Ophidia](#): > > Npc corps are ■■■■ for noobs anyway. I would disagree. People who are in NPC corps are crap for new players. When I joined EVE many years ago, I had a really amazing time in the Hedion University chat with lots of active and helpful people answering questions, giving tips, helping out when you overestimated your capabilities. It’s not the fault of NPC corps that they devolved into cesspools full with frustrated virgins. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/155 "2019-06-28T17:49:54Z")
> [@Mina\_Sebiestar](#): > > Map is delayed info used to get some awareness of what is going on outside > Pros will get lotsa info of it through game knowledge > Noobs will be aware that ships are getting killed left m right in high sec. > Map is there since game early days same as local that doesn’t have anything with this discussion anyway. > Hi is throwing a tantrum let him. Doesn’t “get” the local issue. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/156 "2019-06-28T17:52:21Z")
Nah, I can see exactly where he’s coming from; I just believe that there’s a compromise which would address his concerns. Delayed information, generalised in nature that is updated at downtime would be a start. Basically only the broadest of stats from the map, from downtime to downtime. ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Sebiestar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_sebiestar/32/502522_2.png) [@Mina\_Sebiestar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Sebiestar)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/157 "2019-06-28T17:55:03Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Doesn’t “get” the local issue. Blissfully obliviously under knowledged even. But please spare me. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/158 "2019-06-28T17:59:31Z")
5000+ posts that explain the topic if your ever interested. > [@Main AFK cloaky thread](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5335): > > It’s not bad form, it’s a logical fallacy. You made a claim. I demanded proof. You witholding that proof for mysterious reasons. Ergo, I can dismiss your claim out of hand because you have not met the burden of proof. I didn’t even bother reading the rest of your post because your opening statement wholly invalidated it. ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Sebiestar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_sebiestar/32/502522_2.png) [@Mina\_Sebiestar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Sebiestar)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/159 "2019-06-28T18:07:54Z")
Thx salty been there done that early on before rancid opinions started to pinch too hard on nostrils. ---
**Author:** ![Yonna\_Leczarovitz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yonna_leczarovitz/32/218320_2.png) [@Yonna\_Leczarovitz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yonna_Leczarovitz)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/160 "2019-06-28T18:41:05Z")
Censured ---
**Author:** ![Zeera\_Tomb-Raider](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zeera_tomb-raider/32/144132_2.png) [@Zeera\_Tomb-Raider](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zeera_Tomb-Raider)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100/161 "2019-06-28T18:43:47Z")
CCP need to make it more atractive to be in a player corp like rising mission tax for players in npc corp or rising reward for players in player corp,the same for industry jobs.And make Corp standings more rellevant,if you have only standings for lvl1 mission but your corp standings are lets say lvl3 then you can run lvl3 mission and skip the grind [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-newbies-dont-stay/170100.md?page=9)