# Why should I renew my subscription? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 7, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952 "2018-02-07T19:06:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/502 "2018-02-17T12:01:12Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Salvos, don’t bother wasting any more time with this, they will constantly twist things around and post specific alternate conditions to hopefully get you to concede. We both know it’s skill points that boosts ship stats which is what wins the engagement. I think Ima sees the issue now, in her own way. She didnt want this, anymore than I did. If she was to say “drop it”, I would out of deference due to OP. Being hard on what someone says has always been a factor on these forums, especially by Tippia. We cant let people get away with false claims. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/503 "2018-02-17T12:02:11Z")
I didn’t make any mess. You started wholly pointless semantics argument, missing the primary point I was making entirely, and I decided to play along, doubling down on the point you thought I was making, and because you’re an idiot, and really easy to trigger, I led you around by the bullhorn with it, predicting you’d be argumentative as always. The post I was replying to asserted, and I’m paraphrasing, that SP injection allowed newbies to be competitive. My point was that SP injection can be used by people far more experienced, and it’s far more valuable to them. Respective of the fact that SP injectors actually widen the competitive gap between newbies and vets, it really doesn’t do anything for newbies. This argument was over before it begun, because you were never arguing against anything I asserted until you decided to quote-mine me out of context and, intentional or otherwise, miss my core point completely. It’s been fun, dude. Until next time you completely miss the point, adios. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/504 "2018-02-17T12:08:36Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > We both know it’s skill points that boosts ship stats which is what wins the engagement. [Then explain why these two pilots with more skill points and ship stats than me both lost.](https://youtu.be/1woKNP9bwUE) If it’s all down to ship stats and skill points, this shouldn’t happen. Ever. Under ANY circumstances. It really is that simple. Not only did I have less skillpoints (and not just less than both of them combined, but less than both of them), not only did I have the inferior ship for a combat engagement of this style, I also melted my armour repair, like a dolt. And still won. I have provided multiple examples of cases where the ‘better stats’ don’t win. Because stats alone are never the sole deciding factor. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/505 "2018-02-17T12:09:45Z")
Ok, so I’m glad we could resolve this and everyone (except DMC who is still missing the point) agrees that it was all about a simple semantic error. Ok? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/506 "2018-02-17T12:12:07Z")
@Ima In relation to your OP, I agree. A lot has been lost to the game as a result of changes in the last couple of years and now, at some point, there is no need to keep gaining more skillpoints. Easier to just extract and use the SP to PLEX instead. CCP are still getting paid, but I totally agree, that if you don’t need to train into something new, there’s not really any reason to use your own money. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/507 "2018-02-17T12:13:26Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Being hard on what someone says has always been a factor on these forums, especially by Tippia. We cant let people get away with false claims. So do you agree with that: > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Everyone knows that in the exact same ships, fit the exact same way, the player with the higher skill points will have more tank, more DPS, more range, more speed and more agility. No amount of experience can overcome ship stats increased by skill points. They know they won’t be able to dictate engagement tactics and they would ultimately lose. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/508 "2018-02-17T12:18:07Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > By extension, I’m sure you would agree then that in PVE, a totally new player who injects SP is going to be just as efficient and effective as a 10 year veteran. That again would show that Remiel’s claim was false. Nobody has claimed it is all that matters, but stating: -“SP injectors dont help new players AT ALL.” Is patently, categorically, false. SP improves the stats/performance of ALL ingame entities as ships/characters, regardless of whether they can efficiently exploit those stats with player skills. Even in economic PvP, a character without SP related to that will always suffer a loss, systemically, vs a competitor with more SP, purely based systemically on associated NPC sink costs and efficiency ratings. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/509 "2018-02-17T12:20:55Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Ok, so I’m glad we could resolve this and everyone (except DMC who is still missing the point) agrees that it was all about a simple semantic error. Remiel is the one missing the point, and refusing, still, to acknowledge his error. > [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > So do you agree with that: Yes, I agree with DMCs statement. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/510 "2018-02-17T12:21:29Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Nobody has claimed it is all that matters DMC did, just above. It’s no more correct to claim the polar opposite of what you interpreted from Remiel’s post, is somehow true. It’s just as false. But this thread doesn’t have enough cats (pictures anyway…plenty of example of this in the thread): ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/a/7addd6328089afea98c1eedbba5ec17cd6914b1a.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/511 "2018-02-17T12:24:11Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > DMC did, just above. No, he did not. He parsed skill against SP, accurately and correctly, unlike Remiel. Re-read it, accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/512 "2018-02-17T12:25:47Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > No, he did not. So you agree that this statement is correct: _No amount of experience can overcome ship stats increased by skill points._ tbh, it wouldn’t surprise me at all. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/513 "2018-02-17T12:26:59Z")
I haven’t made an error. Let me give you a basic rundown of what happened. My argument was, “in this context, x is true” And then you argued against me as if my entire argument was, “x is true”. I had a laugh, knowing that you’d argue until you were black and blue, and then argue some more because you just love flailing about and frothing at the mouth when you don’t get your way, I decided to double down on “x is true”. But not once have you actually argued against my original point in context. Not once. And then you agreed with DMCs statement that all that matters is SP and stats, while also stating that nobody has claimed it is all that matters. Bravo, Salvos, bravo. You are the very personification of self-contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/514 "2018-02-17T12:27:27Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > No, he did not. > > So you agree that this statement is correct: > > _No amount of experience can overcome ship stats increased by skill points._ > > tbh, it wouldn’t surprise me at all. Yes, I agree with that. There is no way you will beat me in a new character corvette, vs my full V character corvette. If you choose to deny that, then lets try it. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/515 "2018-02-17T12:28:18Z")
But that is not what the statement says at all ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/516 "2018-02-17T12:28:42Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > But that is not what the statement says at all Which statement? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/517 "2018-02-17T12:30:45Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > There is no way you will beat me in a new character corvette, vs my full V character corvette. He hasn’t applied any “new player” condition on that. He has said that no amount of experience can overcome ship stats increased by SP. So: New player comes in and increases his ship stats by injecting SP and somehow no one can beat him, simply because he increased his ship stats. It’s an idiotic statement if you apply, as you did to Remiel’s post, an absolute interpretation. Even without applying an absolute interpretation, it’s still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/518 "2018-02-17T12:31:32Z")
Actually, there are a few ways. The fact you think that there are no ways tells anyone experienced in PVP where you’re at in regards to PVP experience yourself, which makes it even more likely that you’ll get beat down hard. But no one needs to fight you to prove it. The people with that kind of PVP experience already know it, and they don’t need to test it. With enough PVP experience, one day you’ll either learn it for yourself (provided you’re actually open to learning), or you won’t (if you’re not open to learning). I have shared a video here a few times of an example of something you’re claiming is impossible actually happening. I’m not going to link it again. If you’ve ignored it for this long, I doubt linking it again will change anything. Anyway, you do you, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/519 "2018-02-17T12:32:45Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > He hasn’t applied any “new player” condition on that. He has said that no amount of experience can overcome ship stats increased by SP. Remiel applied the “new player” condition. Address that. As to DMCs statement, as I said, try to beat me in your new character corvette vs my full V character corvette. Lets see how much experience matters vs SP. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/520 "2018-02-17T12:35:35Z")
Ok, I think we once again have some confusion here on your side. Don’t worry, we will talk you trough this. Im back in a few hours, don’t mess the thread up. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/521 "2018-02-17T12:35:56Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Address that. I’m not interested in that stupid argument you are having. As to the challenge, show me where DMC has applied that criteria in his claim and I’ll gladly take you up on the challenge…and no matter the outcome, it will prove absolutely nothing. A one-off fight has absolutely no meaning. Even someone as anal as you should be able to understand that one piece of data means nothing in that regard. But sure. Show me in DMCs absolute statement that I quoted where he included that artificial limitation and we’ll go fight. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952.md?page=24) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952.md?page=26)