# Why should I renew my subscription? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 7, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952 "2018-02-07T19:06:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/562 "2018-02-17T13:21:13Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > I can’t explain what you wrote, since it makes no sense. Do you agree that SP injectors help new players in regards to: 1. Ship PvP 2. Economic PvP 3. PvE Or do you still maintain, by some caveat, that Remiel’s claim that SP injectors do not help new players AT ALL, is true. Make up your mind. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/563 "2018-02-17T13:21:35Z")
Brother, your example is quite impressive but it doesn’t apply to the statement that experience trumps skill points due to the fact that the technical conditions governing both parties in your example wasn’t equal. Character A has lot’s of experience in PvP combat but has very low skill points. Character B has no experience in PvP combat but has very high skill points. Both are in the same ship with the same fit. Who do you think will win? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/564 "2018-02-17T13:22:01Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > No, you’re the damn troll, once again twisting and portraying comments out of context. > > I use to have a lot of respect for you but over the past few years you’ve definitely changed that. Well I guess I should be grateful that some complete stranger on the internet used to think something of me, but that has changed. Nothing of value has been lost. You’ve come out a few times over the years and just attacked completely unprovoked (in the old LAGL thread). Now complaining when I don’t respect that and take a hard line now. Meh. However, agreeing with Salvos on the one hand and then complaining about the same thing happening to your own post is pretty hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/565 "2018-02-17T13:24:37Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > However, agreeing with Salvos on the one hand and then complaining about the same thing happening to your own post is pretty hypocritical. DMC and I are two different people, with different posts, views and arguments etc. You have no place conflating us, nor repudiating DMC, before you have done the same on Remiel. Remiel is whom drew this topic hundreds of posts deep into a pointless hole, because he refused to admit his claim was false. Even now, you are still making excuses for him, despite his behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/566 "2018-02-17T13:26:56Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Make up your mind. I already made my opinion clear. You quoted it several times. Maybe you forgot. But that’s not the question you are chasing up on now. You asked about some stupid injectors and PVE efficiency > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > How are SP injectors more efficient in PvE, than PvP? I can’t answer that question. It makes no sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/567 "2018-02-17T13:27:27Z")
No, my example was a perfect refutation of the claim that SP trumps skills and experience. That is a 2v1 against me, both pilots with more skill points than me, each. At the end of the day, I’d put my money on A. I see it happen in real toe-to-toe PVP often. In order to encourage fights against people with low experience, me and the guys I fly with frequently undership against our targets. [So stuff like this executioner vs a slicer happens](https://youtu.be/AiHLUTE4vaM). That pilot was skill injected, by the way, and plexed. He raged massively after that fight. This is something that happens everywhere, in every game, and in real life. The example I gave a few days ago was the Tuskegee Airmen shooting down German aces in Me-262s, the world’s first jetfighter, flying P-51D Mustangs. By your understanding, that stats win over skill and experience, that shouldn’t happen. Ever. By your assertion that stats win over skill and experience, I should have lost my 2v1. The technical conditions are that I was ‘out-statted’, and that’s what you’re asserting, and what I’ve demonstrated to be false. With more skill and a better understanding of his ship and mine, that Garmur should never have died to me. The fight should have been his. If the argument is, “SP and stats trump skill and experience”, that fight proves it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/568 "2018-02-17T13:31:12Z")
Dude, once again you twist things out of context. I don’t know what you’re on about but you can take your Ad Hominem somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/569 "2018-02-17T13:33:10Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > You asked about some stupid SP and PVE efficiency SP as more efficient in PvE was your own point: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > I’m sure you would agree then that in PVE, a totally new player who injects SP is going to be just as efficient and effective as a 10 year veteran. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > I’m sure you would agree then that in PVE, a totally new player who injects SP is going to be just as efficient and effective as a 10 year veteran. Yet you still insist this is “different” for PvP" PS: This was exactly the same quote chain, by pressing up-arrow to follow it, that you earlier claimed you “had no idea on”. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/570 "2018-02-17T13:33:38Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > you can take your Ad Hominem somewhere else. Nah, it seems right at home in this thread now. However, since ad hominems aren’t great, I should clarify. What I meant was: _Your position to agree with Salvos, while complaining about a similar thing to your own post, is hypocritical._ No more ad hominem, and apologies. Was never meant against you individually, just the position you have taken, ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/571 "2018-02-17T13:34:42Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > SP as more efficient in PvE was your own point: Nope, you even agreed I didn’t write that. But to say it directly, that’s not what I wrote at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/572 "2018-02-17T13:38:26Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Yup, doesn’t take experience to set orbit and mash F1. Also there’s plenty of guides stating what spawn triggers there are so after a quick review that brand new player with injected skillpoints is just as capable as a 10 year Vet. So you basically say that PvE needs zero player skill and if I would train a monkey to orbit and press F1 and set him into the same ship you fly with the same amount of SP he would be as efficient at the game as you are? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/573 "2018-02-17T13:38:39Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Character A has lot’s of experience in PvP combat but has very low skill points. > Character B has no experience in PvP combat but has very high skill points. > Both are in the same ship with the same fit. > > Who do you think will win? > [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > At the end of the day, I’d put my money on A. OK, fine. I experienced just the opposite which I posted at the start of this side topic yet everybody completely ignored it or said it wasn’t possible. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/574 "2018-02-17T13:42:09Z")
Honestly, this is getting ridiculous. Here we are, some 300 posts later, still arguing over a claim (by Remiel) that all participants agree was false (except Remiel). I dont get it. We have already all agreed Remiel’s claim was false, and yet somehow you are still trying to defend him from having to own up to that. Remiel himself is still stuck in stages of denial, resorting to meme posting, and has already claimed to leave the thread some 10 times. Why is it you still try to cover for him? He is only dragging you down with him, on a claim you already dont agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Baba\_Ji](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baba_ji/32/36487_2.png) [@Baba\_Ji](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baba_Ji)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/575 "2018-02-17T13:43:27Z")
LoL The insanity of the last 50 or more post. 5,000 years of modern history and this is the culmination of that progress? We don’t deserve to expand into the universe. Ima Hopefully your thoughts will have an impact on CCP. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/576 "2018-02-17T13:46:05Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > So you basically say that PvE needs zero player skill and if I would train a monkey to orbit and press F1 and set him into the same ship you fly with the same amount of SP he would be as efficient at the game as you are? God you just can’t help yourself, constantly twisting statements around. The same aspect can also apply to PvP as well. By the way, if your monkey can review guides and recognize spawn triggers then you’re golden and should be making lot’s of bank in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/577 "2018-02-17T13:46:26Z")
> [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > 5,000 years of modern history > 5000 years > modern history > wat ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/578 "2018-02-17T13:46:40Z")
Except for the fact that you’re completely off the mark with what my claim was, which is the point where this actually became ridiculous, which was a long time ago. You’re only just catching up on that point tbh. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/579 "2018-02-17T13:49:40Z")
> [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > Except for the fact that you’re completely off the mark with what my claim was **“Skill injectors dont help new players at all”** Explain this now, definitively and concisely, once and for all. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/580 "2018-02-17T13:53:51Z")
No, see, you’re quote-mining out of context again, even after I’ve explained repeatedly, quite a few times now, exactly what that context is. Definitively, concisely, and repeatedly. Your ignorance on display again, Salvos. There was a whole post that came with that line you keep quoting, and there was another post that mine was in response to that provides additional context. TL;DR - this was ridiculous the moment you started quote-mining me. That behaviour just demonstrates you as an incredibly intellectually dishonest hack who deserves to be mocked, memed, and probably permanently shunned by most of modern society. But since we can’t always get what we want, I’ll settle for the entertainment you provide when you’re tripping and flailing over your own sense of self-perfection. The Dunning-Kruger is incredibly strong in you, Padawan, but I sense much fear in you. Fear that others will see you as the complete twit you truly are. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952/581 "2018-02-17T13:55:01Z")
And here comes the intellectual equivalent of “I know you are you said you are so what am I” It’ll be that, or “lalalala I can’t hear you!” Maybe both combined. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-should-i-renew-my-subscription/55952.md?page=29)