# Will ccp accept dogecoin to pay for subscriptions? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 13, 2021, 4:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243 "2021-02-13T04:18:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/188 "2021-02-15T11:02:11Z")
> [@Zoiie](#): > > That can happen with conventional methods too, and does indeed happen And, again, if it happens with conventional methods I file a fraud report with my credit card company and they reverse the transaction. Bitcoin has no such protection. > So take out an insurance policy if you want protection So now I have to pay extra to buy insurance to get the protection I already have by using normal money? Remind me again why I’m supposed to use bitcoin? ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/189 "2021-02-15T11:02:41Z")
You already do pay extra for insurance with conventional, they just hide it in your charges and fees and prices, some are transparant itemised, many are not. They always pass on the costs to the end customer. You think I will run a company and not pass on costs in the prices? LOL The customer covers the operating costs in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/190 "2021-02-15T11:04:32Z")
> [@Zoiie](#): > > You already do pay extra for insurance with conventional, they just hide it in your charges and fees Nope. I pay zero dollars in fees. In fact, the credit card company pays me a ~2% fee for the privilege of having me as a customer. The _seller_ pays fees for accepting credit card payments, but last time I checked I don’t see anyone giving a special discount for paying with bitcoin instead of a credit card. So you’re paying that exact same fee but you aren’t getting the benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/191 "2021-02-15T11:04:58Z")
They hide it by other means, bad exchange rates for example, vs pay a fee and get a better rate. or just give you crappy interest rates. Either way, you’re covering it. The seller also puts it in their prices to cover their operating costs. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/192 "2021-02-15T11:07:11Z")
> [@Zoiie](#): > > They hide it by other means, bad exchange rates for example, vs pay a fee and get a better rate No. If I pay for an item at a store the price to pay by credit card is exactly the same as the price to pay by cash. The seller pays a fee, the buyer does not. > or just give you crappy interest rates. I pay zero percent interest. > The seller also puts it in their prices to cover their operating costs. Yep. And then when you pay with bitcoin you pay the same price I pay, except you don’t get the protection that the credit card fee is covering. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/193 "2021-02-15T11:07:31Z")
So pay with your conventional method, nobody is stopping you, don’t worry about OUR problems. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/194 "2021-02-15T11:08:00Z")
> [@Zoiie](#): > > So pay with your conventional method, nobody is stopping you, don’t worry about OUR problems And now we’re right back to you evading every criticism with “you’re not allowed to post your opinion if you don’t like bitcoin”. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/195 "2021-02-15T11:09:04Z")
You can post all you like, not stopping you, just saying you’re throwing a song and dance over something that you don’t want to use, ok so don’t use it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/196 "2021-02-15T11:10:17Z")
> [@Zoiie](#): > > Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to. You’re right. I don’t use bitcoin. But when you keep posting nonsense in defense of bitcoin I will continue to explain to you and anyone reading this thread that your nonsense is exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/197 "2021-02-15T11:18:46Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > The argument is that the finite supply of bitcoins and increasing difficulty of mining (the thing that gives bitcoin value) inherently limits the number of steps that can be done on the bitcoin blockchain. We’ve seen this already as mining went from “effortlessly get thousands of bitcoins” to “you can mine on your home PC” to “you can mine on your home PC with a high-end video card” to “you need dedicated ASICs” to “you need dedicated ASIC farms in a country with cheap electricity”. Well the reason why it gets more difficult to mine is because there are more miners producing more hashes. Which is in my opinion completely contradicting: > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > When those ASIC farms in locations with cheap electricity can no longer mine profitably bitcoin ends. Because if miners go out of business, it will once again be easier to mine bitcoin. The difficulty is automatically adjusting until the average block time is 10min again. Even if only one dude with a GPU mines. Wouldn’t be very secure though. I can see an argument that there is an issue with the fees in the future if the block size would increase. I don’t see that being an issue for many many years though and it would not manifest suddenly without the opportunity for Bitcoin to adjust the rules. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > As for fee-based bitcoin, it is not viable. The cost of operating bitcoin’s hardware infrastructure (which is deliberately wasteful) is vastly higher than the infrastructure required for a conventional payment system, so bitcoin will have to charge vastly higher fees than Paypal or your credit card. Without the self-funding aspect of mining bitcoin just can’t compete in the market. A payment application based on bitcoin has nothing to do with the mining. Mining a completely separate thing. All the miners do is bring transactions into a historical order. As mentioned before, a payment network on Bitcoin would utilize layer 2 technology. The hardware requirements for such a payment solution are extremely low and since there is no third party involved no one takes any fees. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > This is a nonsense argument. Well I was talking about privacy of address queries and trusting the information of someone elses node. Your points are valid. There is no fraud protection and there is less privacy. Privacy gets increased by layer 2 as transactions there are not part of the public ledger and onion routed. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/198 "2021-02-15T11:19:23Z")
Banks can be trusted, ask anybody in Greece or Cyprus, what happened in Iceland? Yes, the sound of popping Range Rovers going boom. UK has no bank reserve ratio, in fact recently there was a run on a bank out of fear. US also has no reserve ratio now, or at 0% reserve. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/199 "2021-02-15T11:22:13Z")
> [@Zoiie](#): > > Banks can be trusted, ask anybody in Greece or Cyprus, what happened in Iceland If the financial system is so thoroughly screwed that the major US banks have collapsed then we’re talking about the complete failure of modern civilization and your bitcoins aren’t worth any more than national currencies. Can’t eat bitcoins, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/200 "2021-02-15T11:22:58Z")
Sure, nobody will dispute that food health meds and ammo security is what you want in a crisis. Ask anybody in Venezuala. But if you want to preserve wealth for LONG periods (multi generational) as I said before, you don’t use fiat. If fait preserved long term wealth, why could we buy more with less historically with it? Yes, inflation errodes power. Fiat is not a store of value. It’s not money. It’s currency. It is a short term asset (a liability to central banks). Not a long term asset. A short term asset that loses value due to monetary policy. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/201 "2021-02-15T11:30:45Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Well the reason why it gets more difficult to mine is because there are more miners producing more hashes. No, the reason that it gets more difficult to mine is that the bitcoin reward per block is decreasing as an inherent part of the bitcoin algorithm. It’s an exponential decay with a half life of ~210,000 blocks. This puts a ticking clock on bitcoin because at some point the bitcoin reward per block will be less than the cost to do the calculations for that block. > A payment application based on bitcoin has nothing to do with the mining. > All the miners do is bring transactions into a historical order. These two statements are contradictory. Without mining bitcoin ceases to function, and bitcoin mining is on a ticking clock before it ceases to be possible. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/202 "2021-02-15T11:46:42Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > No, the reason that it gets more difficult to mine is that the bitcoin reward per block is decreasing as an inherent part of the bitcoin algorithm. It’s an exponential decay with a half life of ~210,000 blocks. This puts a ticking clock on bitcoin because at some point the bitcoin reward per block will be less than the cost to do the calculations for that block. You are mixing up two different things. Yes, the block reward gets halved after certain amount of blocks. But that has nothing to do with the difficulty of mining a block. The goal of a miner is to construct a block that has a checksum with a certain amount of leading zeros ( see here for example of recent blocks [https://mempool.space/](https://mempool.space/) ). The amount of zeros is the difficulty, as it is exponentially more difficult to find blocks with more leading zeros. Blocks are found randomly but on average every 10min. If that average gets lower or higher the rules in the Bitcoin protocol dictate that the amount of required zeros change to compensate for the change in the hashing power of all the miners participating. As you can see, the scenario you postulate can not happen, as there will always be enough hash power to find new blocks, because the protocol adjusts the difficulty, no matter if miners join or vanish. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > These two statements are contradictory. Without mining bitcoin ceases to function, and bitcoin mining is on a ticking clock before it ceases to be possible. One was about a payment application in layer 2, where transactions do not require prove of work and the other was about base layer transactions where they do to get included into a block. So no, this wasn’t contradictory. I just obviously didn’t make myself very clear. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/203 "2021-02-15T16:04:57Z")
A Fool and His Money are Soon Parted When governments around the world ban crypto because it is nothing more than a tax dodge and tool for terrorists and drug cartels you will lose your money. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/204 "2021-02-15T16:05:33Z")
Nice troll that ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/205 "2021-02-15T16:10:01Z")
Really, how long do you think the US is going to allow companies to move money in from overseas tax free? How long do you think the US is going to allow drug cartels to launder money? And the biggest joke of all, just because the crypto algorithm is secure doesn’t mean all the tools that go with are, but with no auditing who would know if they got hacked. Finally they are already in a losing court case over inheritance. You see US law requires banks to turn over funds to heirs on presentation of a valid death certificate. Guess what, the password died with the old man and his widow wants her money. It takes time for the hammer to drop. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/206 "2021-02-15T16:10:29Z")
Don’t worry you won’t be part of it. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243/207 "2021-02-15T16:11:15Z")
That’s right, I’ll be LOLing the losers. It’s a fad, save some money, get a hula hoop. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-ccp-accept-dogecoin-to-pay-for-subscriptions/295243.md?page=11)