# Will prices go up or down as more casual players leave? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 17, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797 "2019-06-17T12:51:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/187 "2019-06-21T14:45:25Z")
Oookaaaaayyyyy. ---
**Author:** ![You\_ve\_Been\_Scammed](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/you_ve_been_scammed/32/139217_2.png) [@You\_ve\_Been\_Scammed](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/You_ve_Been_Scammed)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/188 "2019-06-21T15:16:43Z")
Just wanted to echo Mortlake’s sentiments and point out that if you die even once in highsec while doing PVE, you are a genuinely bad player and no one should care about your “safety”. The only exception is if you get troll ganked by like 35 T1 fit Thrashers who got bored doing an NPSI roam and wanted to end their night with a bang, or some variation of this scenario. Besides that, you are given every opportunity to keep yourself safe. There is no “forced PvP”. That’s actually just the game. ---
**Author:** ![M\_Cincinnatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/m_cincinnatus/32/258279_2.png) [@M\_Cincinnatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/M_Cincinnatus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/189 "2019-06-21T15:50:29Z")
> [@Hysan\_Tyrosur](#): > > I’m here for pve and pve only…no caveman style clubbing on the head,no stupidly defending the favoring of this ■■■■ and NOBODY,i repeat NOBODY should be able to force me into PVP. > Being able to do that is simply primitive and not wanted in a modern game. EVE was designed from the beginning to have no “safe zones”, it was the devs vision for the game, the possibility of PvP everywhere. It would be like if EVE were a soccer game and everyone on the field on game day wants to play the game as intended, but you alone on the field saying that you don’t want to be blocked and just want to kick goals into an empty net. The answer would be a **BIG FAT NO**! _ **You** _ are the one trying to force PvE on everyone in high sec, everyone else is trying to play the game within the rules and as intended. High sec in EVE is fairly unique among MMO’s, it’s supposed to simulate the clash between law and chaos. Take away the chaos, and it’ll be just like any other MMO out there, and in the end you’ll be remorseful and wish there was an MMO out there like how EVE was before… You still haven’t pondered the concept of why you wouldn’t be happier in a game that has perfectly safe PvE. So you should really dwell on the question of _why are you here?_ ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/190 "2019-06-21T16:00:41Z")
> [@M\_Cincinnatus](#): > > trying to **remove PvP** on everyone in high sec fixed (in bold) > [@M\_Cincinnatus](#): > > So you should really dwell on the question of _why are you here?_ because he wants to whine, obviously 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jennifer\_Austin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jennifer_austin/32/321578_2.png) [@Jennifer\_Austin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jennifer_Austin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/191 "2019-06-21T16:57:57Z")
Let me explain something to you youngblood I was wanting your mindset. also I’ve no PVP there should be an area where you can just do whatever without it being shot .but let me explain to you after being here for going on three years and training my skills being where I’m at today Eve online is a PVP game it’s a consensual PVP game you are consenting to player-versus-player Pvp the moment you hit the unlock button . if you don’t want to PVP have any time any form whatsoever the become a station trader Now let me go further and explain to you why non PVP areas will never work Eve online is alive economy but that means essentially is destruction drives the economy if you don’t lose that venture the prices of venture it will go down go down I’m going to leave you with lasting words of wisdom you’re in here for the long game you’re not in here for the short game or the pay-to-win because yes you can pay and you can get their Titan tomorrow but you would have no bloody clue how to fly that Titan effectively as somebody who has been here 15 years I’ve been in Eve online for 3 years I am now on level four orca pilot I’m industrial mining focused person that’s what I enjoy enjoy salvaging also. The last piece of advice I’m going to give you is find your niche find what you enjoy whether that be destruction and if it is destruction find a ship you actually absolutely enjoy and train it to level five that will take a while don’t you skill injectors because that is a crack habit you don’t want to start laughing I just brought on my v account I am now it’s $75 a real life gas per month on this game I love it it addicting I hope you learn to love it just as much O7 fly safe ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/192 "2019-06-21T17:09:50Z")
> [@Sordina](#): > > PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other. Yeah, it keeps ignoring that bit because it doesn’t serve its narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 8:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/194 "2019-06-22T08:23:01Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > > [@Sordina](#): > > > > PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other. > > Yeah, it keeps ignoring that bit because it doesn’t serve its narrative. It’s useful and efficient to have a certain subset of EVE players working hard to claim that WoW (PvE servers) is a PvP game. They’re wrong of course, but it’s nice to have some helpful little elves as unwitting allies /lol. - EVE (and WoW) are both PvE games with significant _competitive_ elements. In this respect they are similar (but not identical) - EVE has “free-fire” PvP combat. WoW PvE servers do not ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/195 "2019-06-22T11:02:55Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > EVE (and WoW) are both PvE games with significant _competitive_ elements. In this respect they are similar (but not identical) Nope. Eve is a PVP game, by design. THUS it must have PVP open everywhere. Just like it is designed as “spaceship battle game”. Thus it must have spaceships (and fails as we have submarines) ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/196 "2019-06-22T11:46:10Z")
I call it “free-fire combat PVP” to combine brevity with adequate precision, as per the post you quoted from: > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > EVE has “free-fire” PvP combat. WoW PvE servers do not But there’s another precision issue: wikipedia describes “Fortnite Batte Royale” as a “PvP game”. OTOH Overwatch is described as an FPS game, which obviously implies “Combat PvP”, but the description doesn’t say “Plaver vs Player” or “PvP” anywhere. And then we have e.g. WoW’s “PvP servers” (if they’re still a thing) which had a lot more PvP combat than EvE does (though of course they’re not fully comparable). It’s clear the term isn’t all that well defined, and that EVE’s is “furthest from the mean”. Even so, it wouldn’t matter if wasn’t that the “bittervet narrative” is used to make obviously false claims or assertions of the type: _“EVE is a PvP Game therefore XXX is true”_. For such claims/assertions to be valid, it’s essential to prove that EVE really is a PVP game (which is, at the very least disputable) - or to revert to the principles of rational discourse, and find a valid way to support the claim. BTW - your assertion is a perfect example of “petitio principii” (generally known and widely misunderstood as “Begging the Question”). (It’s not entirely wrong of course - it says the same thing twice, and they share the same error). . . I agree about EVE physics being close to submarines in liquid. FWIW I agree with the design decision, but it makes me laugh sometimes anyway 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/197 "2019-06-22T12:21:55Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > It’s clear the term isn’t all that well defined That’s false. It’s very clearly defined. A game IS PVP when it’s designed to oppose players as its main gameplay. Example a game where you can [shoot bubbles to trap opponents](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O49OgQ_kogw) is clearly not PVP oriented, even though the presence of a score allows you to compete against other players. > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > it’s essential to prove that EVE really is a PVP game (which is, at the very least disputable) Eve is PVP. It’s not you to decide, it’s the [game designers](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/EVE-Online-New-Pilot-FAQ.pdf) - and especially the original game designers. > 5.3 SOME PLAYER JUST SHOT ME; IS THAT ALLOWED?In EVE Online, any player may attack any other player if they choose to, no matter where they happen to be. This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core. Can it be PVE AND PVP ? Yes, it’s the way to make asymmetric PVP : you need to acquire resources to be stronger, in turn allowing you to fight the enemy. In Dota you have a PVE part (farm the jungle), in Eve you have farmers. In those cases the PVE serves the PVP. The DESIGN of the game is PVP, the PVE is added as a way to encourage PVP. > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > FPS game, which obviously implies “Combat PvP” Nope. FPS is First Person Shooter That is, the main gameplay consists in shooting targets in Point Of View. [like this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-daxzVxrQI) . Nothing more - nothing less. ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_aihaken/32/92554_2.png) [@Erik\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/198 "2019-06-22T12:44:29Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > But there’s another precision issue: wikipedia describes “Fortnite Batte Royale” as a “PvP game”. OTOH Overwatch is described as an FPS game, which obviously implies “Combat PvP”, but the description doesn’t say “Plaver vs Player” or “PvP” anywhere. > > And then we have e.g. WoW’s “PvP servers” (if they’re still a thing) which had a lot more PvP combat than EvE does (though of course they’re not fully comparable). > > It’s clear the term isn’t all that well defined, and that EVE’s is “furthest from the mean”. Even so, it wouldn’t matter if wasn’t that the “bittervet narrative” is used to make obviously false claims or assertions of the type: > _“EVE is a PvP Game therefore XXX is true”_ . > > For such claims/assertions to be valid, it’s essential to prove that EVE really is a PVP game (which is, at the very least disputable) - or to revert to the principles of rational discourse, and find a valid way to support the claim. > > BTW - your assertion is a perfect example of “petitio principii” (generally known and widely misunderstood as “Begging the Question”). (It’s not entirely wrong of course - it says the same thing twice, and they share the same error). > . > . > I agree about EVE physics being close to submarines in liquid. FWIW I agree with the design decision, but it makes me laugh sometimes anyway 🙂 You consent to freeforall competitive engagements with or against other players from the moment you log in. Be it from the comfort of inside a station (ie: trading, … ). Or outisde. Also, EULA clauses clearly state this, upon installing the game. Competitive PVP by core design, within a PVE structure to sustain it. ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/199 "2019-06-22T12:55:02Z")
![not_again](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/e/eedc04670ab4fbb77b59213194d5c9a928dc842b.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/200 "2019-06-22T13:26:42Z")
> [@Erik\_Aihaken](#): > > You consent to freeforall competitive engagements with or against other players from the moment you log in. > > **Be it from the comfort of inside a station (ie: trading, … )**. > > Or outisde. > > Also, EULA clauses clearly state this, upon installing the game. > > Competitive PVP by core design, within a PVE structure to sustain it. … of course if you choose to define trading as “PvP” (as EVE cryptospeech does) you can make the claims seem real. But in that case WOW is definitely a PVP game, and “EVE exceptionalisim” is a fantasy. If a choice was possible, it would make no difference to _me_ if EVE players decided to admit that every MMO in existence is a PvP game (true with the EVE cryptospeech definition of PvP), or alternatively accept that EVE is just like all the others except for its particular style of (free-fire) combat PvP. But only one of those can be true. For example Trading can’t be PvP in EVE but PvE in all the other MMOs. FWIW I’d be satisfied if the “empty carts” of the forums just stopped using it to “sell” their wild assertions and claims. It won’t happen though, so my options are limited. ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_aihaken/32/92554_2.png) [@Erik\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/201 "2019-06-22T13:43:55Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > … of course if you choose to define trading as “PvP” (as EVE cryptospeech does) you can make the claims seem real. But in that case WOW is definitely a PVP game, and “EVE exceptionalisim” is a fantasy. > > If a choice was possible, it would make no difference to _me_ if EVE players decided to admit that every MMO in existence is a PvP game (true with the EVE cryptospeech definition of PvP), or alternatively accept that EVE is just like all the others except for its particular style of (free-fire) combat PvP. > > But only one of those can be true. For example Trading can’t be PvP in EVE but PvE in all the other MMOs. > > FWIW I’d be satisfied if the “empty carts” of the forums just stopped using it to “sell” their wild assertions and claims. It won’t happen though, so my options are limited. Can you get forcefully attacked and potentially killed **anywhere** by a random player in WoW because he chose to, and the game by design, allowed him to ? No. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/202 "2019-06-22T14:03:49Z")
Guys, Elena is a troll and actively works to derail the thread. Look at what point the discussion has gotten to and look at what the original point of the OP’s thread is. Stop feeding the troll and stop letting him control the thread and derail it so far off topic from what the original thread’s discussion is. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/203 "2019-06-22T14:35:40Z")
> [@Erik\_Aihaken](#): > > [Can you get forcefully attacked and potentially killed **anywhere** by a random player in WoW because he chose to, and the game by design, allowed him to ? > > No. This point is why I write “free-fire PvP” in my definitions of EVE. But we also have to consider non-combat “PvP” - for example, if trading in EVE is “PvP”, so is trading everywhere else. There are certainly differences between EVE and (in the absence of a better term) “mainstream MMOs”. But they cannot be captured by the inaccurate claim “EVE is a PVP game”. - [Fallacy of composition - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition) - ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/204 "2019-06-22T14:48:25Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > But they cannot be captured by the inaccurate claim “EVE is a PVP game”. That’s where you are wrong. It’s not “Eve is PVP because of its mechanisms”. It’s PVP by DESIGN. Again, you do it backwards and in a fallacious way. It’s not a choice, it’s not a consequence : it’s an axiom, the core of the development of Eve. There are a lot of different types of PVP mechanisms in many games. In Eve, it’s “you are subject to PVP the moment you hit undock”. Changing this is effectively killing the game (and possibly making another one), just like switching a wow server to “full PVP” would kill that server (but other people may come) . It’s like you forbade vehicles with wheels to go on a road. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/205 "2019-06-22T14:58:18Z")
Anderson I think you’re looping on an invalid point. AFAIK EVE was designed as a sandbox., with no particular bias. - PvE (normal definition) is clearly essential to get the cash to pay for e.g. ships and structures. - Combat PvP was “free-fire” from the start But if it’s a sandbox, it always was, and still is, both of those. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/206 "2019-06-22T15:41:08Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > with no particular bias. Please use words that have meaning. Anybody HAS bias, by the simple fact that you are human. ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797/207 "2019-06-22T16:12:02Z")
Mods, please tell whoever is flagging Elena’s stuff to stop ? I may not agree with a single word she says, but abuse of the flagging system just to shut her up is simply unacceptable. Needless to say, this was flagged… Could I just remind the perpetrator that abuse of the flagging system is a bannable offence. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/will-prices-go-up-or-down-as-more-casual-players-leave/167797.md?page=11)