# Winter Expansion Update - Catalyst launches November 18th! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** expansion, devblog\ **Created:** [October 22, 2025, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582 "2025-10-22T10:34:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FlyingDisk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flyingdisk/32/473076_2.png) [@FlyingDisk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FlyingDisk)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/62 "2025-10-30T09:51:22Z")
Show us on the doll where the AFK Ishtar ratter touched you. 🙄 No one bots Ishtars, they AFK them. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/63 "2025-10-30T10:04:59Z")
Nowhere. I personally don’t care. But i will always point out that putting an end to botting will hurt null sec far more than it hurts high sec mining. And yes they do. There are many posts on these forums and reddit about them. ISKtars bot way more than high sec miners. Here’s a thread with a lot of claims about them botting. There are many more. Do a Google search. It’s very commonly talked about. > [@Why not solve Ishtar afk’ing yourself](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/why-not-solve-ishtar-afk-ing-yourself/475143): > > It seems everywhere I look on discord forums reddit twitter. Everyone is complaining about the people that have 20 Ishtar spinning different sites and how it’s causing to much inflation and asking ccp to stop it or lower bounty prices. Why not just go blow them up ? It’s a pvp game there in null sec there accounts are afk so go crazy. There seems to be enough people against these isk farms that you should be able to make. Decent enough fleet to wander into null sec and blow stuff up. So maybe in… Reddit: > **[Reddit - The heart of the internet](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/gnbcrr/hunting_nullsec_bots/?share_id=tNKwEFQm-R_KM0cj5s25R&utm_content=2&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)** ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/64 "2025-10-30T11:12:32Z")
CCP could solve this “problem” very easily. Add random tackle- and anti-drone NPCs to all the lucrative sites. This means, the pilots have to stay focused and explicitly target those spawns early. A real pilot can do this very easily and remove those before they become a threat. A bot will just deploy drones and let them do their work like usual, leading to the scenario that the ship will end up defanged and tackled every so often, being either non-profitable any more or being killed by the next best roaming crew. It is no witchcraft to program such spawns, they did it in the Abyss, what is the reason you don’t see Abyssal Bots all around. Even while some fits can solve all spawns in there, it cannot be done totally afk because for some spawns, different decisions have to be made and bots can’t do them. At least not the high-tier ones. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/65 "2025-10-30T12:10:05Z")
> [@FlyingDisk](#): > > No one bots Ishtars, they AFK them. Some people do bot Ishtars though. An AFK Ishtar would die when hunted. An Ishtar that responds by repeatedly taking the exact same list of actions without adjusting their strategy even if this strategy is being countered is not AFK, but is no human either. I once found and hunted a bunch of Ishtars of the latter type. They would warp between safe bookmarks in system while a hostile (me) was in system with them. One even warped straight back to me on a bookmark I was at after I combat probed their location but failed tackle the first time. A human would have seen me attempt to tackle their ship and would not have warped to that location again. A human could have seen I was in a Loki and had no bubble so they could dock up instead of warping between safes. They did not at all adapt to new information, just followed a scripted evasive pattern. Definitely not human behavior. Ishtar bots do exist. I expect most are just (semi-)AFK. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDisk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flyingdisk/32/473076_2.png) [@FlyingDisk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FlyingDisk)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/66 "2025-10-30T17:39:46Z")
Oh, please. Putting an Ishtar in a Haven and alt-tabbing to Netflix is no more “botting” than you parking your Hulk in an asteroid belt and alt-tabbing to Netflix. I don’t support AFK playstyles any more than I support botting, but they are two completely different issues. Botting is the use of 3rd party software to automate game play, not utilizing existing mechanics to the point you don’t need to pay attention to the game. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/67 "2025-10-30T17:55:04Z")
> [@FlyingDisk](#): > > Putting an Ishtar in a Haven and alt-tabbing to Netflix is no more “botting” than you parking your Hulk in an asteroid belt and alt-tabbing to Netflix. LOL How big do you think the hold is on a Hulk? With my yield, it fills up in maybe 4 minutes. It’s the fastest mining ship in the game and that’s before you speed it up with skills and an Orca. If it fills up, the lasers shut down. It’s mining stops. It doesn’t gain anymore. So you think that a group of Ishtars ratting for hours every day with no user input at all is far less profitable than 4 minutes of a Hulk mining in High Sec? Present your data. Let’s see the stats on that. Show me how those 4 minutes are so profitable that it breaks High Sec. 🙂 And for the record, I don’t alt-tab. I have three monitors. I can watch two accounts and watch Netflix at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDisk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flyingdisk/32/473076_2.png) [@FlyingDisk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FlyingDisk)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/68 "2025-10-30T19:17:54Z")
Miners whining about other player’s AFK playstyle is peak hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/69 "2025-10-30T19:18:46Z")
Not even close. How big do you think the hold is on a Hulk? With my yield, it fills up in maybe 4 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDisk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flyingdisk/32/473076_2.png) [@FlyingDisk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FlyingDisk)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/70 "2025-10-30T23:58:08Z")
Please explain how the size of the ore hold of a Hulk has anything to do with your being a flaming hypocrite? Using a Hulk was an example of your hypocrisy, not a part of a case study. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2025, 3:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/71 "2025-10-31T03:03:09Z")
I did explain it. I cannot help that you don’t understand what happens when a Hulk’s hold gets full. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/72 "2025-11-02T14:29:47Z")
Still no option for coloring icons? 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![TheGuy\_Akachi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theguy_akachi/32/478757_2.png) [@TheGuy\_Akachi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheGuy_Akachi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/73 "2025-11-04T13:05:28Z")
Just want to say I am all for this. > **[Make mining more like other PVE activities - Player Features and Ideas...](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/522556/)** > > EVE allows you to discover, explore and dominate an amazing science fiction universe while you fight, trade, form corporations and alliances with other players. > TL;DR > Make asteroids have a chance to drop refillable mineral chunks, like RNG loot in other PVE activities. Not exactly my idea, but got the motion of adding more unpredictability like other PVE activities is a definite good direction for the activity. ---
**Author:** ![Derlin\_Fishen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derlin_fishen/32/477895_2.png) [@Derlin\_Fishen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derlin_Fishen)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/74 "2025-11-04T15:19:24Z")
Just make the player have to monitor and manage the laser power during a mining session. Get rid of those A B C crystals, which would be redundant. If you want resource denial (C), make weapons to do it. A and B crystals could be replaced with a monitoring mechanic. Using the wrong power level gets you residue that you have to jet can from time to time. Multi boxers can still do what they do, and be rewarded for their vigilance, just like single miners. And I wouldn’t have to carry 15 types of mining crystals. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/75 "2025-11-04T15:34:57Z")
Only if firing weapons requires just as much complexity. For example, no more auto-fire. Each ship must fire its weapons manually each and every single cycle. Each module cycle must also be manually cycled. ---
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Infomorph](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_infomorph/32/489149_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Infomorph](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Infomorph)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/76 "2025-11-04T15:36:03Z")
No. Mining desperately needs to be more active. NPC combat does too, in its way, but that’s more an issue with the drone AI than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/77 "2025-11-04T15:36:51Z")
Oh because pvp multiboxing is fine for you, but mining multiboxing is where you draw the line? Lol Edit: still waiting for a reason why a Hulk’s cargo hold filling up in 2 minutes 23 seconds is a problem for you. Can’t go afk in a Hulk yet somehow you’re still upset that Hulk pilots are afk. Do we finally get an answer on that? ---
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Infomorph](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_infomorph/32/489149_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Infomorph](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Infomorph)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/78 "2025-11-04T15:39:06Z")
I object much less to multiboxing (though I’m no fan of it either) than I do to actually AFK activities, such as VexorNI ratting or mining. Do feel free to PvP while AFK. Miners do that stuff all the time, I have friends who love it, especially when you use ORE lasers. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/79 "2025-11-04T15:41:03Z")
A Hulk pilot does not go afk. The Covetor (mining barge) and the Hulk (Exumher) Will never be seen AFK if the lasers are still firing. The Retriever and Mackinaw will go for a few more minutes before getting full, but will also never be afk if the lasers are firing. The Procurer and Skiff may be, but their yield is almost nothing. You’re mad about the Ventures gas huffing which takes up to half an hour in a wormhole and generates way more profit. Admit it. That’s what has you upset. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/80 "2025-11-04T15:51:59Z")
> [@Synthetic\_Infomorph](#): > > Miners do that stuff all the time, I have friends who love it, especially when you use ORE lasers. Ahh here it is. Your friends are alpha players and mine veldspar in ventures. They dont know anything about Omega mining ships. You want to nerf Alpha. I’m all for that. Omega ships use strip miners. ---
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Infomorph](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_infomorph/32/489149_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Infomorph](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Infomorph)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2025, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582/81 "2025-11-04T15:54:28Z")
You overestimate my emotional involvement in this subject. I just want what’s good for the game, and I recognise that mining needs an overhaul. No need to argue, this isn’t my opinion, it’s axiomatic. And no, I don’t want to nerf alpha, I want to remove it. If its existence has any benefit beyond artificially inflating the active pilots number on the launcher, I’ve yet to see it. I’m sure most of those are bots anyway. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-expansion-update-catalyst-launches-november-18th/499582.md?page=5)