# Wow, when did EVE become pay-to-win? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 22, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283 "2020-05-22T22:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tarball](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tarball/32/207573_2.png) [@tarball](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tarball)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/1 "2020-05-22T22:46:49Z")
Been away for a few years and was curious about how eve was doing and whether to re-sub. It seems that the pay-to-win aspects is growing and that money can more-or-less buy you anything. I suspect this is a money-maker for the developer. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/2 "2020-05-22T22:48:12Z")
> [@tarball](#): > > Been away for a few years and was curious about how eve was doing and whether to re-sub. It seems that the pay-to-win aspects is growing and that money can more-or-less buy you anything. I suspect this is a money-maker for the developer. chill eve is not pay to win ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/3 "2020-05-22T22:53:12Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > eve is not pay to win Define win. ---
**Author:** ![M\_Cincinnatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/m_cincinnatus/32/258279_2.png) [@M\_Cincinnatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/M_Cincinnatus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/4 "2020-05-22T22:55:20Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > chill > eve is not pay to win 👆 The whale that spends thousands of real money to “catch up” is gonna be super rare, so why worry about it? ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/5 "2020-05-22T22:55:22Z")
EVE has been subscription based for 17 years. You’ve always had to pay to play it… ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/6 "2020-05-22T22:56:05Z")
yes , pay to play , its a sandbox not a football match you play, not win to give an example , you can say the kid who pee less in the poll is the winner , but that would be BS to make the kids keep the pool clean ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/7 "2020-05-22T23:38:24Z")
You can’t throw so much money at the game that you become virtually unbeatable. On the contrary, the rest of us sharpen our harpoons when we see a whale. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/8 "2020-05-22T23:41:08Z")
![whales](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/9/2900dbfef43e3a592d49e5977b42f8c359fdcd32.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Schlosser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/roland_schlosser/32/392001_2.png) [@Roland\_Schlosser](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Roland_Schlosser)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/9 "2020-05-22T23:49:38Z")
You only win when you stop paying ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/10 "2020-05-22T23:52:38Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/7/a763a6a7d04c21813b41e4b791747ac875b18b03.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/11 "2020-05-23T00:04:30Z")
What do you “win”? ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/13 "2020-05-23T00:51:00Z")
It didn’t. That’s when. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Raven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/francis_raven/32/478168_2.png) [@Francis\_Raven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Francis_Raven)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/14 "2020-05-23T01:12:39Z")
I dont think this game is pay-to-win at all. Maybe if you’re a solo player looking to play alone, but in the end for most people, this will be a socialize-to-win game. Being a leader of a relatively large nullsec alliance, I see it day in and out where people think bigger and more expensive = better. That could NOT be FURTHER than the truth. When Legacy coalition was fighting Fraternity, we saw a few faction titans (the most expensive ships in the game) get blown up because the guy at the wheel was a creditcard warrior. A single pilot flying as a simple t2 interceptor, interdictor, or any ship really, can make or break an engagement. Skill and time learning the game trumps spending real money every time. However, yes, there are ways you can speed up your skilling by purchasing injectors. As a company, it’s smart for CCP to think of ways to increase revenue. They run the game you love. Let them make money so that you can keep playing while they keep developing. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/15 "2020-05-23T01:20:21Z")
I think what marks a good MMO is that the “win” criteria is tied to the players’s goals rather than a scoreboard…and as Eve doesn’t even have a scoreboard…etc… ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/16 "2020-05-23T02:22:17Z")
It actually happened **JUST NOW, THIS VERY INSTANT** now that you have noticed it! Thanks for bringing it to everyone’s attention. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 5:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/17 "2020-05-23T05:35:46Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Eve doesn’t even have a scoreboard But it have competing people inside game. Theoretically whats being on the way of winning every challenge is availability of market, logistics and the skills players posses, but when these would be equal for everybody, more money spent on progress in scenarios will help. Throw cash and win scheme. When CCP will reduce these limiting factors in the game, when they will flatten the unequalities, they will go after whales. They dont have to bring gold ammo even. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 5:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/18 "2020-05-23T05:38:03Z")
A single person cannot “win” at anything specific as the structure doesn’t even exist to gauge what that winner is… > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > they will go after whales Why would a company go after the biggest spenders? That makes no sense… ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/19 "2020-05-23T05:42:11Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > A single person cannot “win” at anything specific as the structure doesn’t even exist to gauge what that winner is… There are scenarios when structure is build by game and players. Like in solo PvP or PvE site running competition. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > biggest spenders Its profiling in work. They could go into it like their parent company do it already, in BDO. That work would have to be spread on many years… Many people forget that making online only game is about making more money, its business. [http://www.crmforhumans.com/?page\_id=84](http://www.crmforhumans.com/?page_id=84) [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266655528\_Spending\_real\_money\_Purchasing\_patterns\_of\_virtual\_goods\_in\_an\_online\_social\_game](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266655528_Spending_real_money_Purchasing_patterns_of_virtual_goods_in_an_online_social_game) ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 5:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/20 "2020-05-23T05:57:15Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Like in solo PvP or PvE site running competition. But you don’t “win” the game…it’s just a single little event that happened in a vast game. If you think you’ve won Eve by running a site successfully then you’re standards are pretty low. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Its profiling in work Of course companies profile their customers… > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > They dont have to bring gold ammo even. There is no “gold ammo” in Eve… ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/21 "2020-05-23T06:02:50Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Of course companies profile their customers… From the research paper above, that I posted: > For real money, spending increased for players up to four years, then declined It is the availability of items that are in the game that make me think its the same with EVE. Thats also reason why they want new players and are willing to add things like red dot to the game, because they said new players liked it. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283.md?page=2)