# Wow, when did EVE become pay-to-win? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 22, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283 "2020-05-22T22:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/192 "2020-09-09T19:13:15Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Not really, only owner sometimes. If someone buys PLEX and immediately exchanges them to extractors and extracts from his main some not usefull skills, to then injects SP to learn completely new ones he didnt had, its is sort of convenience that is not available to anyone else beside him in that particular case. Still not true. Yes an individual person can do that all on their own. But there is still the OPTION for everyone else to use them without spending real $$$$. The issue would be if there was no option, ie you could ONLY do what you state in your example. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/193 "2020-09-09T19:16:18Z")
> [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > The issue would be if there was no option, ie you could ONLY do what you state in your example. There are bigger problems with game than if you can or cant sell PLEX in game. One of the reasons they exist, is that you actually CAN sell PLEX in game. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/194 "2020-09-09T19:17:50Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > There are bigger problems with game than if you can or cant sell PLEX in game. great, make a thread about them. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/195 "2020-09-09T19:20:09Z")
> [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > great, make a thread about them. These threads already exist. But, to actually calm people who think that the game is Pay to Win, I will tell, that one character who bought his SP and Titan just in first month of gameplay was repeatedly ganked, and all his belongings destroyed, because he was so naive. He had cash, nothing else. People just dont care who you are, if you are new and have a lot of cash but dont know what you are up to, you will lose everything very fast. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/197 "2020-09-09T19:50:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You know that there’s only an option to buy them without $$$ because the people who paid $$$ choose to sell them for ISK though, right? CCP don’t seed PLEX on the market. Duh, the point is there are no $$$$ exclusive items. There is no uber damage “gold ammo” that can only be bought with real $$$$ and can’t be sold or traded in game by any means. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/199 "2020-09-09T20:21:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But that’s an arbitary line Yes It is my arbitrary line. And never did I say it wasn’t P2W. I simply said that “I” don’t have a problem with it unless they were items that were exclusively real money only (could not be attained in game any other way, couldn’t be sold on the market, etc) “I” personally don’t have an issue with how PLEX is designed. It allows those who don’t have the free time but have the income to bypass isk grinding in game to fund their activities. In turn it allows those who have the time, to gain a benefit of a monthly sub at someone else’s expense. You may still prefer to simply label that P2W. Personally I don’t care, it is just a label. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/200 "2020-09-09T20:50:38Z")
What advantage is PLEX giving you? ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/202 "2020-09-09T20:53:46Z")
Oh that pay to win I thought you meant the other one. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/203 "2020-09-09T21:22:43Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I get it, you think that if 2 newbies start at the same time and one buys a maxed out character and all the ships they want, they don’t have any advantages over the other. You clearly don’t. EVE is an exceedingly complex and rich game. There is far more to the game than just “I can fly more ships” or even “I have more isk”. As far as games go, you seem intent only to want people to agree the game has P2W mechanics. I have already given you that. you seem not interested to explain anything further. So in your example, the new player with the purchased character has a clear advantage at least in terms of available ships to fly. so what? When I started EVE there were already players who had played for 9 years before me. Their added experience, wealth, SP did not and still does not negatively impact my enjoyment of EVE. There were also probably players who paid for the shortcuts. They have not negatively impacted my enjoyment of EVE. In fact the only people who have would be CCP, like when they nerf my favorite ships. But I adapt and move on. So for the second time I will give you the win on P2W. and ask again, so what? ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/204 "2020-09-09T21:35:25Z")
I’m not handwaving anything. Games that are labelled Pay to Win typically place new players in new servers where all players are starting at an even keel, and only those who pay have any reasonable chance at taking a leaderboard in an event (for example). EVE isn’t like that. Two new players are going to be competing against 17 years of other player activity - but the deciding factor in their success isn’t in what they can buy from CCP, but in what they can learn and apply to their goals. Selling PLEX may get them into a ship faster - but it doesn’t change everything else that they both have to learn how to do to be functional (let alone successful) versus _everyone else_ in the shared server environment. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/206 "2020-09-10T00:29:10Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not that complex, it’s just an MMO. As MMO’s go it is far more complex than most. Between the market and manufacturing and PVE and PVP and SOV and all the other parts. Then all the way the loot and salvage and everything goes together to create the things that are sold. It has far more moving parts than any other MMO I’ve played. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There’s nothing further to explain. It has P2W mechanics and that’s OK. Ok so there are P2W mechanics. And it’s ok. So why are you still here? Heck, given that, why am I still here? I’m gonna go play some EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/207 "2020-09-10T01:21:19Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/0/d003d21c5de109779ba62ee7e784bc1a6a6fd723.jpeg "Paul Stanley - live to win") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OvpzForHyU) PAY TO WIN TILL YOU DIE ---
**Author:** ![Gaius\_Mileghere](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaius_mileghere/32/258417_2.png) [@Gaius\_Mileghere](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaius_Mileghere)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 1:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/208 "2020-09-10T01:35:57Z")
can we settle a definition, please? What is the win condition for EVE Online? ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/209 "2020-09-10T02:38:45Z")
No longer playing EVE Online. ---
**Author:** ![Gaius\_Mileghere](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaius_mileghere/32/258417_2.png) [@Gaius\_Mileghere](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaius_Mileghere)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/210 "2020-09-10T03:46:14Z")
Touché. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 3:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/211 "2020-09-10T03:58:48Z")
The reason why some people have these crazy interpretations of “pay to win” (which is to say, any interpretation that _isn’t_ the ability to buy a practical advantage that can’t reasonably acquired through normal gameplay) is because they’ve never actually _won_ anything, so of course they have no frame of reference to work from. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/212 "2020-09-10T05:21:04Z")
Going out in style is the icing on the cake, there was a thread recently where someone did exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 8:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/214 "2020-12-09T08:26:33Z")
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