# Wow, when did EVE become pay-to-win? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 22, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283 "2020-05-22T22:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Edga\_Rodz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/edga_rodz/32/212641_2.png) [@Edga\_Rodz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Edga_Rodz)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/63 "2020-06-21T07:02:08Z")
Define “win” in EVE ---
**Author:** ![Niriam\_DoT](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/niriam_dot/32/283318_2.png) [@Niriam\_DoT](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Niriam_DoT)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/64 "2020-06-21T07:15:32Z")
Suckging chars dry of their SPs, buying plex for all the ISkies , trashing that all and bioreactoring the chars ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/65 "2020-06-21T07:17:12Z")
Did you get a new random word generator today? Might need some tinkering… ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/66 "2020-06-21T07:37:29Z")
Character bazaar + PLEX have been around for years, so anyone with cash could come, buy a titan pilot and else and lose it miserably trying to gate in hisec. Nothing new under the sun. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 8:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/67 "2020-06-21T08:23:35Z")
How much does it cost to win? ---
**Author:** ![Ishmael\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ishmael_ronuken/32/209150_2.png) [@Ishmael\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ishmael_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/68 "2020-06-21T09:32:38Z")
Gimmie 100 Plex and you will win. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/69 "2020-06-21T10:02:18Z")
The cost is your corpmates, the reward is getting your life back. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/70 "2020-06-21T10:39:38Z")
corpwhat? ---
**Author:** ![Rekindle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rekindle/32/382332_2.png) [@Rekindle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rekindle)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 10:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/71 "2020-06-21T10:43:12Z")
Silly deniers. Yes you can pay money to buy skills and isk. You can pay irl money to be better and more skilled in Eve. There will be those in this thread that deny this fact because they can deny anything. P2w started with selling GTC for isk but that only gave them a taste. When they started selling skill injectors and plex like they do now it turned off a lot of the vets who just wanted to pay a flat fee a month and be done with it. now you have a weird mix of old players and new players who have a completely absolute polar opposite perspective on many of these issues. The game you left is not the one you return to and neither is this new PA CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/72 "2020-06-21T11:03:49Z")
Better off buying Bitcoin, at least you get something back ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/73 "2020-06-21T11:07:47Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > Silly deniers. Yes you can pay money to buy skills and isk. You can pay irl money to be better and more skilled in Eve. There will be those in this thread that deny this fact because they can deny anything Nothing you said leads anyone to a “win” scenario…just a bit of salt… ---
**Author:** ![Lloyd\_Roses](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lloyd_roses/32/244283_2.png) [@Lloyd\_Roses](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lloyd_Roses)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/74 "2020-06-21T11:25:53Z")
I totally endorse the current pay-to-win mechanics. People can dump money on buying the most bling-fitted T3s and stratios of all times and rat away as desired, only to find out their sic deathmobile is just one AB frigate away from loot liberation, least those flying essentially officer fit tengus into c2 sites. Can buy ships and SP, but not an understanding of the rock-paper-scissors-nature of eve. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/75 "2020-06-21T11:30:33Z")
> [@Canis\_Lupus](#): > > I’ve again abandoned eve Please, stay away from now on. ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/76 "2020-06-21T11:49:54Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > You can pay irl money to be better and more skilled in Eve. You mean to feed us those nice shiny killmails like that guy whom on first day have spent shitload of money to inject himself into officer fit golem only to get ganked out of jita undock? And that was only first of the stream of shiny killimails from that single guy. That story was probably the most expensive lesson of “don’t pay cash to skip learning period of the game”. ---
**Author:** ![Canis\_Lupus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/canis_lupus/32/213880_2.png) [@Canis\_Lupus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Canis_Lupus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/77 "2020-06-22T15:38:34Z")
Of course you do. Everyone knows pay to win is lame, and so now we argue over whatever pay to win is. Define “pay” and define “win” How about, whatever your character is, if you dump money into it, you can become more powerful and have a better chance against anything else, still taking your precious pilot skills into account. That’s pay to win, and it’s a joke. You’re all a joke, but you can keep fooling yourself and wasting your time and hey if you have fun and it is your money-- that’s cool, I guess. One day you’ll look back at this conversation and these experiences and realize how stupid you were about it all. Or maybe not? lol ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/78 "2020-06-22T16:53:54Z")
> [@Canis\_Lupus](#): > > Define “pay” and define “win” Okay. The traditional definition of “pay to win” is a system in which you are able to pay cash (directly to the game makers) to be able to purchase an advantage that is either not available to players through normal gameplay, or isn’t achievable in a _reasonable_ manner or amount of effort (e.g. “you can have this sword that’s 2x as powerful as any boss drop for either killing 100,000,000 boars, or by giving us $200”). Being able to trade subscription time for in-game goods is about as far away from a P2W system as a game can get, since _all_ of those goods were crafted by players, and can be acquired just by playing the game normally. ---
**Author:** ![Kimberley\_Kuvakei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kimberley_kuvakei/32/177095_2.png) [@Kimberley\_Kuvakei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kimberley_Kuvakei)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/79 "2020-06-22T19:26:32Z")
I politely have to disagree miss[.](https://youtu.be/UXxWMyGyy0g) ---
**Author:** ![TeachMyAss](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teachmyass/32/214471_2.png) [@TeachMyAss](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TeachMyAss)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/80 "2020-06-23T02:30:48Z")
If OP is referring to the Alpha / Omega difference you now have to be Omega to do anything substantial in EVE. As you invest time & effort crafting your roadmap towards superstar capsuleer you can now speed up that skill-queue faster & grow whole crops of idle throwaway SP collecting chars. Sell the SP, Sell the chars, increase your income stream, get out of the boring iskgrind to get your PLEX Omega EVE accounts running. Spend less time in the game and spend more time cherry picking the fun stuff like being part of PVP alliance warfare. In the old days it might take you years of being in a shitty corp to finally unlock all the wonders of nulsec pvp glory but with the new businessmodel you can be doing PVP in a 100m char very quickly when you pay your way within a month. Trust & reputation are linked in with how much you are willing to commit in ISK value because your experience & history mean nothing: it’s how much you can assure your corp/alliance that you’ll stay active in the game because participation means everything during strat ops not how nice a person you are on comms to excuse yourself that you can’t make the fleet today because of ISK or real $$$ issues. So yeah, Pay to Play is here to stay. You’ll learn to keep it to yourself though because being poor is often scoffed at within a richkids snowflake culture. You flip burgers? Don’t tell them. Grinding in a belt for hours each day to make that PLEX (barely). Keep lying to yourself & your EVE friends that you are having the time of your life. I tried alpha, but eventually you will plateau your char and get kicked out the alliance for being uncommitted to the cause 😭 ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/81 "2020-06-23T02:56:34Z")
strat ops, kicked out the alliance , this has no meaning to 90% of the players i know what it is because i was a bee BZZZZ to stop depending of a bunch of terrible players to have fun rly ---
**Author:** ![braless\_lindseypelas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/braless_lindseypelas/32/214472_2.png) [@braless\_lindseypelas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/braless_lindseypelas)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/82 "2020-06-23T02:57:32Z")
@TeachMyAss stop being poor 😝 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283.md?page=5)