# Wow, when did EVE become pay-to-win? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 22, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283 "2020-05-22T22:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/83 "2020-06-23T03:00:21Z")
null people are the worst people 0% autodetermination i have a irl friend stuck in a alliance , he cant even be on chat with his friends, he log of to be with us on discord what a looser ---
**Author:** ![braless\_lindseypelas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/braless_lindseypelas/32/214472_2.png) [@braless\_lindseypelas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/braless_lindseypelas)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/84 "2020-06-23T03:01:58Z")
You could help him have more fun in EVE and as the OP says: give him some cash so that he can be with the coolkids in the coolships šŸ˜‹ ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/85 "2020-06-23T03:07:22Z")
i have 0 cash, but i can be with my friends on discord and no one spy on me using the api bunch of babies ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/86 "2020-06-23T03:23:18Z")
> [@TeachMyAss](#): > > I tried alpha, but eventually you will plateau your char and get kicked out the alliance for being uncommitted to the cause šŸ˜­ Odd that people would assume that someone who is only playing the free trial of a subscription-based game isnā€™t particularly dedicated. ---
**Author:** ![braless\_lindseypelas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/braless_lindseypelas/32/214472_2.png) [@braless\_lindseypelas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/braless_lindseypelas)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/87 "2020-06-23T03:27:29Z")
> [@Gergoran\_Moussou](#): > > Odd that people would assume that someone who is only playing the free trial of a subscription-based game isnā€™t particularly dedicated. @TeachMyAss could be a veteran player that stopped playing EVE before the P2W model got implemented so please donā€™t be too quick to judge there. Your assumptions could be wrong & it is a variant on the _donā€™t be poor_-trope imo. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/88 "2020-06-23T03:32:14Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > no one spy on me using the api ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/1/112dc518bdddf326e2534c7210362a3942792f3a.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/89 "2020-06-23T03:43:40Z")
> [@Large Fleet Fix to Monster Nuking Ship Blobs](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/large-fleet-fix-to-monster-nuking-ship-blobs/248695/15): > > Why not? Iā€™m quite up-front with the expression of my desires > [@More payment options](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-payment-options/250661/4): > > Payment option **S**? You mean to tell me thereā€™s more than one? > > Iā€™ve been paying with my body this entire timeā€¦ > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Hey bois šŸ˜š šŸ’• ms @Destiny_Corrupted you can spy on me any time you want šŸŒ¶ šŸŒ¶ šŸŒ¶ šŸŒ¶ ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 4:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/90 "2020-06-23T04:06:38Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > ms @Destiny_Corrupted you can spy on me any time you want šŸŒ¶ šŸŒ¶ šŸŒ¶ šŸŒ¶ Iā€¦Iā€™m a boyā€¦I thinkā€¦? šŸ˜• Is it any less of a disappointment if I say Iā€™m a really cute one? Wait, youā€™re a middle-aged BR dude chasing me around an MMO? Oh god, this is like 2015 all over againā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 4:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/91 "2020-06-23T04:41:03Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Is it any less of a disappointment if I say Iā€™m a really cute one? i dont think you are a boy ā€¦ butā€¦ no problem , im geiā€¦ i thinkā€¦? šŸ˜• > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Wait, youā€™re a middle-aged BR dude chasing me around an MMO? Oh god, this is like 2015 all over againā€¦ looks fun . if any time you feel nostalgic about it ,convo me šŸ˜ƒ edit: if you are over the Age of consent ofc ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 4:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/92 "2020-06-23T04:51:51Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > i dont think you are a boy ā€¦ This is literally the first time in my life that I donā€™t know how to respond to a forum post. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 4:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/93 "2020-06-23T04:56:58Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > This is literally the first time in my life that I donā€™t know how to respond to a forum post. about the boy thing? you know to much about fashion ā€¦ but im feeling kinda uncomfortable to i was joking ms @Destiny_Corrupted dont want to pass like Iā€™m a creepooo let end this thing here ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 5:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/94 "2020-06-23T05:05:14Z")
No, Iā€™m not angry or upset anything! Just that out of all the things Iā€™ve ever been in EVE, I never imagined Iā€™d become a trap, too. Itā€™s like unlocking some kind of weird achievement. I mean, Iā€™ve done it for infiltrations and such, sure, but this is my mainā€¦soā€¦ šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø ā¤ ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/95 "2020-06-23T05:07:49Z")
lol ok i believe in you ā¤ šŸ˜˜ ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 7:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/96 "2020-06-23T07:37:23Z")
Now I finally remembered what you reminded me of: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/4/24130b23f2d2fa9fdf7eb086db5e524a81b9997d.png) Calling you Professor Oak from now on. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/97 "2020-06-23T07:41:13Z")
@tutucox_Khamsi Pst, hey ā€¦ I think she digs you, but sheā€™s a bit shy about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sideways\_Bottomsup](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sideways_bottomsup/32/194490_2.png) [@Sideways\_Bottomsup](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sideways_Bottomsup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/98 "2020-06-23T07:50:06Z")
> [@TeachMyAss](#): > > In the old days it might take you years of being in a shitty corp to finally unlock all the wonders of nulsec pvp glory but with the new businessmodel you can be doing PVP in a 100m char very quickly when you pay your way within a month. Out of curiosity, how is this different from the old days? Or have you just forgotten about selling time codes and buying characters? ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/99 "2020-06-23T09:19:04Z")
I thought Eve was Pay to Spin (the ship) ---
**Author:** ![Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manweru_cemenotar/32/230368_2.png) [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manweru_Cemenotar)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/100 "2020-06-23T10:33:31Z")
wait, eve isnā€™t subscription based chat emulator? D: jokes aside, > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The traditional definition of ā€œpay to winā€ is a system in which you are able to pay cash (directly to the game makers) to be able to purchase an advantage that is either not available to players through normal gameplay Thatā€™s the most classic definition of P2W on the internet, and does not apply at all in EvE - everything, including omega status, can be obtained through normal gameplayā€¦ > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > or isnā€™t achievable in a _reasonable_ manner or amount of effort Thatā€™s newer influenceto popular definition, with the rise of games that were sliding in the original one with ā€œbut you can obtain these things in game without paying lolā€ but with the grind attached to it being insane to the point no one is going to realistically get it this way. And now, the only way i could see that one somehow applicable by any stretch of imagination to eve, is omega status. If You are beginner player, and are learning the gropes of the game, You may get the feeling that earning that isk to plex your account would require insane amount of gametime daily to pull off. In this case eve could feel a bit p2w-ish and that only started to be the case with alpha clones because before that if you couldnā€™t afford sub, you wouldnā€™t play at all. That being said once You educate yourself on how to make isk more efficiently, you will not only have no issue plexing your omega account, you will also in the longrun swim in the isks way beyond that. Meanwhile someone who is just paying the sub with irl will never be forced to learn these things and will struggle with replacing the losses. So who has the ultimate advantage in there? ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/101 "2020-06-23T13:18:11Z")
**Wow, when did EVE become pay-to-win?** Either never - or always. Never, because you canā€™t really WIN in EvE other than by having fun, On the other hand, if you set goals and want to accomplish them as your own personal score for ā€˜winningā€™, then the more resources you put into accomplishing those goals, the more likely you will actually achieve them. You will need to pay with some combination of time, effort, and currency. ā€“Gadget always wins ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283/102 "2020-06-23T14:14:57Z")
> [@Manweru\_Cemenotar](#): > > wait, eve isnā€™t subscription based chat emulator? D: > > jokes aside, > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > The traditional definition of ā€œpay to winā€ is a system in which you are able to pay cash (directly to the game makers) to be able to purchase an advantage that is either not available to players through normal gameplay > > Thatā€™s the most classic definition of P2W on the internet, and does not apply at all in EvE - everything, including omega status, can be obtained through normal gameplayā€¦ > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > or isnā€™t achievable in a _reasonable_ manner or amount of effort > > Thatā€™s newer influenceto popular definition, with the rise of games that were sliding in the original one with ā€œbut you can obtain these things in game without paying lolā€ but with the grind attached to it being insane to the point no one is going to realistically get it this way. > > And now, the only way i could see that one somehow applicable by any stretch of imagination to eve, is omega status. If You are beginner player, and are learning the gropes of the game, You may get the feeling that earning that isk to plex your account would require insane amount of gametime daily to pull off. In this case eve could feel a bit p2w-ish and that only started to be the case with alpha clones because before that if you couldnā€™t afford sub, you wouldnā€™t play at all. > > That being said once You educate yourself on how to make isk more efficiently, you will not only have no issue plexing your omega account, you will also in the longrun swim in the isks way beyond that. Meanwhile someone who is just paying the sub with irl will never be forced to learn these things and will struggle with replacing the losses. So who has the ultimate advantage in there? I would say that Omega status is outside of any ā€œP2Wā€ considerations, because itā€™s a **requirement** of the game. You simply **canā€™t** play without it, just like you canā€™t play without a sub in WoW (last time I checked, you got level-capped and couldnā€™t engage in any current tier content). CCP just does a very bad job of conveying the fact that Alpha status is essentially a trial version of the game. The issue is likely that few of CCPā€™s employees are actual gamers who keep up with the gaming world, and understand the industryā€™s current zeitgeist. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wow-when-did-eve-become-pay-to-win/243283.md?page=6)