# "Wreck Their Dream" Makes New Players Leave **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310 "2021-10-20T12:40:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/53 "2021-10-20T14:27:41Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > thus becoming a dream wrecker yourself. Hum, I don’t want to wreck dreams, just participate in those battles that CCP advertise so well. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/54 "2021-10-20T14:28:18Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > And clearly you’re not one of those Jesus… another troll. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/55 "2021-10-20T14:29:05Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > Hum, I don’t want to wreck dreams, just participate in those battles that CCP advertise so well. What do you think is the purpose of those battles you want to participate in? ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/56 "2021-10-20T14:29:50Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > What do you think is the purpose of those battles you want to participate in? Sovereign take over… fun. Certainly not ruining someone’s day. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/57 "2021-10-20T14:30:03Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > NOBODY never looses ships! Ten years of filth on this character’s ship. If you never undock, you never lose a ship. That’s easily 10% of characters. There are many professions in which flying a ship is something you do once. Though this one is actually in space a lot. ![Dirty girl 2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/b/2/5b2af0282c5dd57180093c7f55130076549f930d.png) ![dirty girl](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/d/6/4d6543e57386c8c097bf8d8a23f5a9411bcabde5.jpeg) Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/58 "2021-10-20T14:30:36Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > Sovereign take over… fun. Certainly not ruining someone’s day. So, “take over” of someone else’s space doesn’t ruin the previous owner’s day? LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/59 "2021-10-20T14:31:15Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > So, “take over” of someone else’s space doesn’t ruin the previous owner’s day? I wouldn’t think so, it’s legitimate in EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/60 "2021-10-20T14:32:45Z")
What if taking over space involves shooting their ships and destroying their structures? Would that be ‘wrecking their dreams?’ ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/61 "2021-10-20T14:33:00Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > I wouldn’t think so, it’s legitimate in EVE. Correct, and is also wrecking someone’s dream. See? You are having fun kicking in someone else’s sov “wrecking their dream” while also claiming this is a turn off to the game. You want to wreck other’s dreams while not having your dream wrecked. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/62 "2021-10-20T14:34:33Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > My Lord, another one who needs to learn how to read. Fortunately, I can both read and write, Twijn. I provided my own precis of your outpouring of grief. _sigh…_ “Wreck Their Dream” Makes New Players Leave. Hopefully, you intended your first post to amplify the (rather vague) sentiment expressed in the title of the thread. ‘Wreck their dream’ is imprecise as a motive for the activities of much (perhaps most?) of our playerbase. People blow stuff up for a number of reasons; giving folks a bad day may or may not be one of them. You have failed to present coherent arguments in support of the notion of broad application of such an imperative within the game _and_ directed at new players. How may one tell a new player from a new character? Your second fail lies in the latter part of your title; ‘Makes New Players Leave’. What, _all_ new players? In sum, then, the title of your thread, its thrust and execution resemble nothing more than a banner headline in a downmarket tabloid newspaper, ill-researched and substituting hyperbole for accuracy. There now, Twijn; go or stay? It’s up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/63 "2021-10-20T14:34:46Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > What if taking over space involves shooting their ships and destroying their structures? Would that be ‘wrecking their dreams?’ I don’t have a problem with the action, it’s the way it’s presented… it’s in my OP. This thread is about Player Retention. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/64 "2021-10-20T14:36:06Z")
@Sasha_Nemtsov This thread is about Player Retention and the way EVE is presented to new players. Post on topic, please. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/65 "2021-10-20T14:43:14Z")
Wrecking dreams is presented by CCP as part of the gameplay in EVE, which accurately shows new players that this game is not only about building but also destroying. This helps new players as they can -with that knowledge- make a good choice whether EVE is a game matching their interests. Hopefully this stops new players who are not interested in such gameplay from trying altogether, which increases the retention rate of the players who are interested. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/66 "2021-10-20T14:44:46Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > This helps new players as they can -with that knowledge- make a good choice whether EVE is a game matching their interests Yes, and in my OP ( which you should read, btw ) I say that it doesn’t help New Players stay in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/67 "2021-10-20T14:47:48Z")
for F sake, even the title of the thread says **New Players** ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/68 "2021-10-20T14:50:08Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > “Wreck Their Dream” Makes New Players Leave. IMO the only way your dream gets totally wrecked in terms of game play is if you have someone literally following your around every time you undock and blowing you up. (And if you’ve made that kind of enemy so early in your game career, you really did something wrong!) (And even then just create a new character and start over) IF this is a real post, sounds more and more like there mere lack of a guarantee of success is what the op is lamenting about. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/69 "2021-10-20T14:51:49Z")
Am I? How’s that crushing the dreams of your opposition to achieve yours is healthy for eve ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/70 "2021-10-20T14:51:50Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > Grow up. And they need to learn to understand what they read, too, for the love of God all mighty. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/71 "2021-10-20T14:53:04Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > How’s that crushing the dreams of your opposition to achieve yours is healthy for eve For Pete’s sake, please read the OP and try to understand it, please. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/72 "2021-10-20T14:54:25Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > Yes, and in my OP ( which you should read, btw ) I say that it doesn’t help New Players stay in the game. Yet it does the exact opposite! Player retention is a ratio of _amount of players staying_ versus _total amount of players starting the game_. Examples: - If everyone who tries EVE would stay with the game, retention would be 100%. - If everyone who tries out EVE notices that the game isn’t right for them and they all stop playing, retention would be 0% For the sake of getting a higher player retention, it is therefore _good_ if CCP accurately tells players at the start that EVE is not only about building your space empire but also about destroying that of others. Because if players who are not interested in such gameplay don’t try out the game, they won’t leave the game and as a result the retention goes up. TL;DR: “Wreck their dreams” makes player retention go up as it hopefully stops players unsuited for EVE from trying the game. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310.md?page=4)