# "Wreck Their Dream" Makes New Players Leave **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310 "2021-10-20T12:40:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/73 "2021-10-20T14:54:31Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > This thread is about Player Retention and the way EVE is presented to new players. > Post on topic, please. If you say so, Twijn. But you can quote no research to support the view that a magic number of players leaving the game are doing so for the reasons you cite. What motivates the company (CCP) seems to be the _net_ number of players and, importantly, the amount of money they’re willing to spend in pursuit of their fun. They understand - as do most adults - that you win some and you lose some. The exit of players from EVE is not, in my view, anything for me to be concerned about. As for your hand-wringing about the manner in which the game is presented to new players; I think you obsess too much. The advertising is cleverly slanted so that the weaker sort aren’t frightened out of their my-little-pony wits, but _are_ encouraged to dip a dainty hoof into the mire of New Eden. Spot on, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/74 "2021-10-20T14:55:01Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Yet it does the exact opposite! Finally, a light of hope in the tunnel. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/76 "2021-10-20T14:59:46Z")
“Wreck new players’ wrong expectations”, via wrong advertising, would be worse, and I even think that’s already happening. I don’t see a link between showing EvE Online as it is and low _new player retention_. There could, at most, be a link to poor “_attraction_”. If new players are unaware of what they’re getting into, are unfamiliar with the nature of full on open world pvp, then their retention rate will stay stable (and low). Not even a new tutorial will make significant changes to the new player retention. Changes made to the game in general are likely more important to the overall (new + vet) retention than any other game related aspect. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/77 "2021-10-20T15:00:13Z")
WOW, 76 posts in this thread already. It’s kicking arse! Definitely hit a nerve. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/79 "2021-10-20T15:05:39Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > And they need to learn to understand what they read, too, for the love of God all mighty. “The fault lies not in our stars but in ourselves” - ancient Earth poet. Maybe with so many people apparently not understanding (so you say) what you mean, maybe you should re-state it more clearly and briefly? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/80 "2021-10-20T15:06:21Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > Then why the F are you even posting in this thread?!? I have hitherto addressed you in reasonable fashion, and fully, Twijn. I’d appreciate it if you would do the same for me. The problem lies - as it often does on the forums - with a less-than-solid grasp of the subject/s you have raised. I posted responses here because I wanted to help you understand your topic, and perhaps so that I could get to the crux of it all, too. I’m not the only responder to be somewhat bemused by your rambling approach to a serious discussion. Calm down; have a cup of tea and a scone. Relax. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/82 "2021-10-20T15:08:02Z")
I did. You don’t think this ideology is good for the game or make players want to keep playing. But it’s the exact ideology that does keep the game going. Eve fills a niche in the market. It’s not for everyone but it’s one of if not the best for those inside that target market. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/83 "2021-10-20T15:08:53Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > That won’t make a bit of difference. Can’t squeeze blood out of a turnip. > And why should I dumb down my OP because of a few illiterate members? And with that… ![walk-away](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/f/2/6f2b9f8cdab3b9ddd8b09a679c7d40cad6f2937a.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Kylanti\_Hendar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kylanti_hendar/32/385538_2.png) [@Kylanti\_Hendar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kylanti_Hendar)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/86 "2021-10-20T15:12:31Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > t’s fun to play a game and see progress. Nah, it’s much more fun to succeed against the odds than to be gifted a win. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/87 "2021-10-20T15:13:02Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Twijn, you have given us the Crown Jewels! > > Now we know so much more about you than we did at the start of this sorry journey Please stick to the topic of the thread, and try to keep up, will you? ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/89 "2021-10-20T15:14:51Z")
> [@Kylanti\_Hendar](#): > > than to be gifted a win No one has talked about being gifted a win… I don’t know what part of your body you pulled that out of and I don’t wanna know, thank you. Please read the OP ( yes, again ) and try to understand it. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/91 "2021-10-20T15:25:00Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > And with that… What a shame. You’re part of the few who understands what the thread is about. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/92 "2021-10-20T15:27:05Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > that’s just crappy attitude towards other players, especially new players Which is offset by the countless Corps out there that will take you in. Provide you with free ships, skill books and BPC’s………….teach you mechanics and support your learning as well as organising roams and creating content. For every hostile group out there ……there is a helpful one. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/93 "2021-10-20T15:27:17Z")
You mentioned ‘illiterate members’, Twijn. It’s your thread; I was responding to what you wrote. Who are these illiterate (can’t read/write) members, Twijn? Do pick them out for me. I agree with the poster above. Please edit your original post to make it less of a dog’s dinner, removing off-topic remarks, like: > [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > sorry to disappoint you You also said, at the end: > [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > Just wanted to voice that. I’m happy now. > Have a good rest of your week and take care. …which implies that you thought you could flounce out the door without our good and dedicated forum-warriors detaining you for even a moment. You thought wrong. Perhaps you’re used not to being challenged about the content and presentation of your views. Perhaps it is _that_ which is responsible for the salinity of your responses to our perfectly reasonable comments, Twijn. Put down the coffee and pick up the pen! ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/94 "2021-10-20T15:28:52Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Which is offset by the countless Corps out there that will take you in. Provide you with free ships, skill books and BPC’s………….teach you mechanics and support your learning as well as organising roams and creating content. > > For every hostile group out there ……there is a helpful one Oh wow… a thoughtful response and on topic too. I’m impressed. Yes, what you say it nice and true. But what if I want to manufacture my own ships and ammo? I don’t want handouts. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/95 "2021-10-20T15:30:32Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > …which implies that you thought you could flounce out the door without our good and dedicated forum-warriors detaining you for even a moment. You thought wrong. > > Perhaps you’re used not to being challenged about the content and presentation of your views. Perhaps it is _that_ which is responsible for the salinity of your responses to our perfectly reasonable comments, Twijn. > > Put down the coffee and pick up the pen Yes that’s all nice and stuff but you’re still off topic. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/96 "2021-10-20T15:32:34Z")
Newbie friendly industry corps exist. Like I said quite often they can provide the BPC’s you need for free or for a discounted price to make you more competitive. Post in rookie chat in game. Or post in the recruitment forum in here. Good friendly corps exist but do sone hone work because this is eve and sone corps……… well they arnt quite as good. Recruiters are everywhere in eve. Ask questions of them and if it sounds dubious it probably is. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/97 "2021-10-20T15:34:38Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > Yes that’s all nice and stuff but you’re still off topic. …Then a moderator will soon be along to put it right! I think I’m beginning to see where you’re coming from, Twijn. The answers to all your doubts and concerns are readily available through various routes, as Etch is currently pointing out to you. I hope it helps. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/98 "2021-10-20T15:35:20Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Newbie friendly industry corps exist. Like I said quite often they can provide the BPC’s you need for free or for a discounted price to make you more competitive. > > Post in rookie chat in game. Or post in the recruitment forum in here. > > Good friendly corps exist but do sone hone work because this is eve and sone corps……… well they arnt quite as good. > > Recruiters are everywhere in eve. Ask questions of them and if it sounds dubious it probably is. ❤ ( ran out of heart from this tightwad forum ) So join a corporation and play with others to attain my goals… okay but What about the original OP that says “… makes new players leave…” ? Do you agree? Do you disagree and why? ---
**Author:** ![Kylanti\_Hendar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kylanti_hendar/32/385538_2.png) [@Kylanti\_Hendar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kylanti_Hendar)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/99 "2021-10-20T15:35:48Z")
You were replying to a comment about guaranteed wins. I don’t like guaranteed wins, they are boring. > [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > > > Why should one play a game that guarantees a _win_ and a guarantee of being able to accomplish what a player sets out to accomplish > > It’s called ‘fun’ [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310.md?page=5)