# "Wreck Their Dream" Makes New Players Leave **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310 "2021-10-20T12:40:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/120 "2021-10-20T16:03:09Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > I don’t think the collective wisdom of the forum is going to change your mind about the game. You will either want to play or you won’t. It’s your decision That is not what the thread is about. I’m not looking for anyone to convince me. I can make up make my own damn mind. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/121 "2021-10-20T16:04:00Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > So do you or do you not agree that it hurts Player Retention? It does not hurt player retention. It helps it because it attracts players who prefer that style of game. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/123 "2021-10-20T16:04:54Z")
You want to make this personal ? Just asking, so there can be no mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/124 "2021-10-20T16:05:17Z")
Player Retention isn’t some magic attribute. it’s just math used for a company to estimate how well they are performing toward a goal. I feel honest advertising helps attract **and retain** players who are comfortable with EVE’s actual nature. I feel dishonest advertising attracts players who ultimately leave because EVE isn’t the game they thought they were being sold, and doesn’t suit what they want to do. Honest advertising may result in a lower total population of new players, but those new players are more likely to stay in the game because they are getting their expectations met or exceeded. So the player retention rate is _higher_, but the total player acquisitions are _lower_. If CCP cares about total player acquisitions, they will use dishonest advertising to get players in the door. If CCP cares about retaining players, they will use honest advertising _and deliver on their development promises_ so that smaller volume of incoming players make up for low numbers with high retention and conversion-to-paying-customer rates. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/125 "2021-10-20T16:05:32Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > You want to make this personal ? You already did by trolling this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/126 "2021-10-20T16:06:26Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > Putting that in quotes says I’m not a new player… that’s suggesting I’m lying. FYI I don’t appreciate being called a liar. As much as the CSM won’t appreciate being insulted? Or is outrage only one way here? I just find it very surprising that a new player is being so vocal about CSM performance to the point of actually being insulting to the CSM members in this thread and others. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/127 "2021-10-20T16:06:40Z")
So sorry if one of my replies to you wasn’t to your liking. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/128 "2021-10-20T16:07:50Z")
Oh hell, the “Community” has decided to flag the O.P. I’ve been outflanked! This thread is dead. Thanks to everyone who participated. It was fun. Take care. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/129 "2021-10-20T16:11:03Z")
One final comment: I watched that video above and was EXCITED AS HELL!!! 👍 👍 👍 👍 I would very much want to be part of a battle like that. I know real combat in the game isn’t exactly as the video but so what? To be part of a massive fleet attacking a structure, and/or, be part of the defending fleet seems so very cooooooool!!! Who could possibly look at that and think it’s about crushing dreams. I’ve seen Upwell stations being attacked and destroyed in hisec. The owners haven’t a prayer of defending themselves. But they didn’t quit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/130 "2021-10-20T16:13:26Z")
> [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](#): > > I feel honest advertising helps attract **and retain** players who are comfortable with EVE’s actual nature. Just out of curiosity, do you have any actual data to back up your feels? And how do you think retention from CCP advertising EVE as a game of sociopaths correlates with the new player losses due to the “SP will make you better” lie being pushed by CCP for short term profit? Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/131 "2021-10-20T16:19:47Z")
My data is all circumstantial and experience-driven, of course, based on interactions with other players in a newbro-centric corporation and on these forums. The (in my perceptions) high rate of advertising-based-expectations failing to align with in-game-experiences and frustration that results from such is what drives my stance on CCP’s current marketing paradigm. That is: CCP gives every impression of being concerned with milking newbros for money, not showcasing the reality of EVE to attract players who are likely to thrive - but are also unlikely to use cash to ‘catch up to the veterans’. ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/132 "2021-10-20T16:23:21Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > One final comment Bah… the OP has been flagged which tells me I should not have started the thread so I’ll let it rot until it’s locked. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/133 "2021-10-20T16:29:38Z")
As a salvager and explorer, I dream about finding wrecks. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Bahamut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_bahamut/32/411846_2.png) [@ISD\_Bahamut](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Bahamut)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/134 "2021-10-20T16:35:19Z")
---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Bahamut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_bahamut/32/411846_2.png) [@ISD\_Bahamut](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Bahamut)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310/135 "2021-10-20T16:46:10Z")
Well that escalated quickly which means this has been closed due to the large number violations per the below rules… > 1.Specifically restricted conduct. > > The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to courteous when disagreeing with others. > > In order to maintain an environment where everyone is welcome and discussion flows freely, certain types of conduct are prohibited on the EVE Online forums. These are: > > ``` > Trolling > Flaming > Ranting > Personal Attacks > Harassment > Doxxing > Racism & Discrimination > Hate Speech > Sexism > Spamming > Bumping > Off-Topic Posting > Pyramid Quoting > Rumor Mongering > New Player Bashing > Impersonation > Advertising > > ``` [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wreck-their-dream-makes-new-players-leave/333310.md?page=5)