# You going to need to spend more time in EVE after the change? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 30, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227 "2019-07-30T21:27:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![xxxTRUSTxxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xxxtrustxxx/32/285949_2.png) [@xxxTRUSTxxx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/xxxTRUSTxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/22 "2019-08-01T22:50:42Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Like we really needed to hear you whine about his post. and we really needed to hear the whine the OP gave us? come on man. how can you agree with this and back the person up with their plan to just give up again and maybe come back in a year to again whine about not getting the best isk the best mining the best everything. can i point this line out to you DMC. > [@Digital\_Memory](#): > > Bad thing is now that I have to do more of this instead of doing some fun or if i want to buy a ship/stuff. doesn’t enjoy the game really. so why should the OPs opinion matter when they admit they don’t stick around, don’t want to work for stuff, even having to train a skill book is an effort. > [@Digital\_Memory](#): > > And to lower my tax i have to train some more skill and it only gets worse after that. > [@Digital\_Memory](#): > > Player station - gone. — want poses stuck in the past. refuses to change. > [@Digital\_Memory](#): > > Supercarriers/titans gone - Take away this ship, so we get a healty 0.0 were small allianses can win to. doesn’t understand that a bigger alliance will show up in more ships than they can ever field and still win. > [@Digital\_Memory](#): > > Player dont lose their ship if they have one allready. ^^^ total nonsense. > [@Digital\_Memory](#): > > Easier to kill poses/station - shorter timers wants to log in for an hour, just not accepting reality of what EVE is. > [@Digital\_Memory](#): > > Going to play one more month then i say goodbye, and check in later in about a year to see what have happen. what will happen is everyone would have adapted to changes and the OP will feel even more alienated and then we get another post filled with what we all will read in every single post in this thread. OP needs help, needs to join a better Corp / alliance, OP doesn’t need to make a thread like this. ---
**Author:** ![Khergit\_Deserters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khergit_deserters/32/319315_2.png) [@Khergit\_Deserters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khergit_Deserters)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/23 "2019-08-01T23:45:38Z")
Toxicity is a tradition for Eve forums. Actually, more like a law. If things don’t get toxic, we worry that apathy has set in and it’s time for more OMG Eve is Dying posts. A toxic post is better than no post at all(?) 🤔 That’s a hard call to make. ---
**Author:** ![Ravid\_Bheskagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravid_bheskagor/32/472687_2.png) [@Ravid\_Bheskagor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravid_Bheskagor)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/24 "2019-08-02T00:19:11Z")
Being toxic turns player away from EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/25 "2019-08-02T00:58:08Z")
I’m agreeing with Scoots on something. These truly are the end times. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/26 "2019-08-02T02:54:54Z")
These radical changes make me see EVE and CCP in a more positive light, no longer slaves to the “must get more subs and short term profits” investor’s dogma. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/27 "2019-08-02T04:24:31Z")
You know what? I definitely don’t like the Upwell structures and I’d very much like to have a POS, mainly so I can carry it in my BR and set it up somewhere out in ‘No Man’s Land’, then go get my Loki and do some extended exploration. As for the rest, so frackin’ what? So the OP needed to blow off a little steam, no biggy. However, seeing a bunch of snide-ass nit-picking remarks from supposedly long time veteran players who basically are encouraging him to leave tells me they want this game to lose players. Sorry bud but we need to encourage players to stay, if anything at least play as an Alpha clone and hopefully they’ll re-sub. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/28 "2019-08-02T11:12:25Z")
> [@Khergit\_Deserters](#): > > Toxicity is a tradition for Eve forums. Indeed. And even worse and also a tradition here is how some seem to believe the toxicity is in replies like mine and not in the post that originated this thread itself… It’s ■■■■■■■■ like the OP’s rambling here, someone that cannot even be bothered to make his post intelligible, what is detrimental both to the game and to other players (or potential players) that might be wondering what all that crap is about… And what makes all this nonsense possible is how some seem to think they’re entitled to demand again and again the game be made easier for them… ---
**Author:** ![xxxTRUSTxxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xxxtrustxxx/32/285949_2.png) [@xxxTRUSTxxx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/xxxTRUSTxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/29 "2019-08-02T19:38:30Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Sorry bud but we need to encourage players to stay, if anything at least play as an Alpha clone and hopefully they’ll re-sub. i agree we need people to stick around, but to expect best mining best isk per tick, no hassle is expecting a bit too much. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > ou know what? I definitely don’t like the Upwell structures again i agree with ya, they sure need more love. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > OP needed to blow off a little steam and the place for that is among ya mates on TS or discord. and probably best not to stick in in text, we all have a bad one and need to vent now and then, so for the OP, need some cheese with that ?? > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > seeing a bunch of snide-ass nit-picking remarks lol come on DMC you’ve been here long enough like meself to expect nothing better from GD. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/30 "2019-08-02T21:31:12Z")
> [@xxxTRUSTxxx](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > seeing a bunch of snide-ass nit-picking remarks > > lol come on DMC you’ve been here long enough like meself to expect nothing better from GD. 😉 Yeah, I know but over the years we’ve all seen the constant decline in numbers even though some don’t want to acknowledge it. The issue right now is that we all need to help stop that as best as we can. This game needs to stop hemorrhaging players. If we want this game to continue then subscription / log-in numbers need to start rising again. Posting a few words of sympathetic encouragement to someone venting their frustration here in the forums just might be what’s needed to help keep them in the game. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/f/8fac34db8e78967cc362bcba05c0009c193b357e.png) ---
**Author:** ![Khergit\_Deserters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khergit_deserters/32/319315_2.png) [@Khergit\_Deserters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khergit_Deserters)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/31 "2019-08-02T23:51:50Z")
The strange thing is, General Discussion has always tended toward toxic. But if you get in voice comms with perfect strangers, everybody tends to be exceptionally nice. And when CCP used to do PLEX for Good fundraisers for charity, Eve players would be amazingly generous with donations. Eve people are a perplexing crew. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/0/40ee72d4b7c3fb1c3b91b398f7409a54d972de58.png) ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/32 "2019-08-03T01:04:08Z")
> [@Khergit\_Deserters](#): > > The strange thing is, General Discussion has always tended toward toxic. Yeah, CCP fostered and promoted that type of attitude in the 1st generation / old old forums. Then when that toxic attitude was aimed at them they started doing extreme acts of moderation in the 2nd generation / old forums in an attempt to stop it. I’m talking about everything from removing posted replies to locking threads to outright bans. Unfortunately that just fueled the toxic attitude even more. Course due to that players started using Reddit instead of the Official Eve Forums and to make things worse, some of the old, now ex CCP employees who actually encouraged that toxic environment also started posting there as well which then caused even more players to abandon the Official Eve Forums. When this Discourse forum was implemented as the Official Eve Forums, CCP publicly declared amnesty for all accounts that were previously banned from the old forums and said that moderation as well as enforcement of Forum rules would be more relaxed. Naturally that was done in the hope of getting players to come back to the Official Eve Forums. However if you look at the Forum rules the very first sentence clearly states: > The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community. Later in the Forum rules when getting more specific it also states: > The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others. > > In order to maintain an environment where everyone is welcome and discussion flows freely, certain types of conduct are prohibited on the EVE Online forums. There’s even more statements in the Forum rules that have the same sentiment: > Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online **if it is presented** in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. > Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Course the enforcement of Forum rules depends on the moderators interpretation of what’s posted. And if community members think they’re not being impartial or that their actions are not justified: > If any pilot has an issue or complaint regarding the conduct of our forum moderators, the EVE Universe Community Team can be reached by contacting [communityteam@ccpgames.com](mailto:communityteam@ccpgames.com) from the verified email address connected to their EVE Online account(s). Anyway, back in the days of old when a toxic forum environment was promoted by CCP, there wasn’t a continuous drop in player numbers like there is now. In fact CCP themselves have recently admitted there’s a problem with retaining players. All I’m saying is that us older forum community members can also help retain players by not being so toxic in our replies to newer players who get frustrated and post their complaints here. Who knows, if subscriptions / log-in numbers start rising again maybe the toxic environment will be acceptable once again. ---
**Author:** ![xxxTRUSTxxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xxxtrustxxx/32/285949_2.png) [@xxxTRUSTxxx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/xxxTRUSTxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/33 "2019-08-03T11:04:52Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > This game needs to stop hemorrhaging players. If we want this game to continue then subscription / log-in numbers need to start rising again. all up to CCP. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > help keep them in the game. we’ve all done our fair share of helping players and continue to do so, but the help should never be in the form of pandering to their nonsense and silly requests. The help should always be in a way that helps them undestand the game and encourage them to try harder. i still believe it’s really up to CCP to sort the whole retention of players. i get what ya saying though 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/34 "2019-08-03T12:22:06Z")
I’m a firm believer in personal responsibility. I’ve been tutoring a guy whom I found as he was streaming doing the “newbie trying his best” thing, had 5 viewers. At this point he’s on my discord, I fleet with him on various characters, teach him, explain stuff, we discuss things. He’s been solo in null making a long round trip. He’s been in WH’s, done low sec stuff, done ninja salvaging. Right now he’s killing Herons and Imicuses in WH space using his bomber. At this point he’s trying to join some WH alliance and they just don’t trust him: he knows too much and does too well for his character age, hehehe. “CCP should solve this”, “people/we should do that”. **No** , do it yourself. ACTUALLY invest your OWN time and effort, don’t just do the easy “someone else should do it” sitting back and feeling good about yourself. If we as a community want a better game and player base, actually start _doing_ something about it. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/35 "2019-08-03T12:57:11Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Posting a few words of sympathetic encouragement to someone venting their frustration here in the forums just might be what’s needed to help keep them in the game. This is wrong. That _only_ helps when the frustration is justified, e.g. when CCP breaks something that worked before. It does **not** help when the frustration is the player’s own fault, e.g. when it’s caused by making wrong assumptions or by pretending the game should be made easier for oneself. The right thing to do when the player is at fault is to show him he’s wrong, so he may learn to do things better, **not** to encourage him to stick to his wrong way of thinking and doing things. That’s totally counterproductive, it only encourages more blame shifting and whining, which doesn’t help anyone and can only lead to more frustration. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > if you look at the Forum rules the very first sentence clearly states: LOL. The OP is an unreadable bunch of ranting gibberish that goes against the rules and spirit of the forums itself. There is a lot of non-factual stuff that often does not even make sense. Heck, he could not even be bothered to make his post readable, which is what I find most disrespectful towards anyone that might want to read it. But you don’t care about that at all, do you? You like that post even. You only care that I make sarcastic remarks you cannot cope with and hence that sure must mean I’m being “toxic” and have to be breaking some forum rule somewhere, eh? > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > we need to encourage players to stay > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > All I’m saying is that us older forum community members can also help retain players by not being so toxic in our replies Except that’s what you want to believe and make others believe you’re doing, **not** what you’re doing. When you talk about wanting to retain players in EvE, you’re talking about the game that you’d like EvE to be turned into, not the game that EvE is. What you really do is _use_ those players to try to change EvE into something else, not _help_ them in any way. This can be clearly seen in your reply to the OP, which I’m gonna quote here in full because it’s very telling: > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Yeah, gotta say I agree with a lot of what you said, game is definitely getting tougher for casual players. CCP seems oblivious to the consequences of their actions. In an attempt to incite more player log-ins, all they’re really doing is alienating more of the playerbase. > > Anyway, sorry to hear you’re leaving in one month and will check back in one year. A lot can change in that time. If your account sub expires in one month, just play as Alpha clone until CCP makes things better. That was your reply to the OP. No more, no less. Nowhere did you try to help him figure how to make ISK or whatever it is that he’s complaining about, so he would want to stay. Nowhere did you tell him how he could have presented his concerns so he could get actually useful replies, e.g. by asking what the best way to make ISK is after the changes, which would have turned this thread into something entirely different. Nowhere did you say _anything_ that might help him learn to properly play and enjoy EvE at all. What you did is _ **use** _ him to try to “prove” there is something wrong with EvE that needs to be changed in whatever direction you’d like EvE to go. You just see in those players an opportunity to _ **use** _ them for your own selfish interests. The only thing that behaviours like yours may accomplish is make others believe there is a point in whining and rambling like the OP did, thus discouraging them from figuring how to deal with any difficulties and enjoy the game the way it is. You encourage them to try to make CCP turn EvE into something else instead. **You** are the one being toxic here… ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/36 "2019-08-03T21:47:17Z")
And yeah so what, I agreed with a lot of what the OP posted. I definitely don’t have to explain or state which part of his post I agreed with, especially not to the likes of you. I also encouraged him to continue playing the game instead of ridiculing him with sarcastic demeaning remarks like you did. In fact I’ve never seen you once post any helpful info or say anything good here in these forums. And if you think everything in this game is rosey red and working perfectly then you’ve definitely lost touch with reality. The fact that you’re reading way too much into what’s actually stated proves it. Hell, you can’t even comprehend basic English let alone accept the fact that not all forum users speak English as their native language. Anyway I’m seriously tired of your toxic bullshite lies. Your shortsighted bullheaded prejudiced rants is a cancer upon this forum and will be reported if continued. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/37 "2019-08-03T21:55:08Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > I’m a firm believer in personal responsibility. But do you believe in bad luck? ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/38 "2019-08-03T23:09:09Z")
Within EVE, no. Luck (whichever kind) is something one didn’t account for or mitigate through planning, knowledge or Intel. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/39 "2019-08-03T23:11:06Z")
Within or without, its all the same ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/40 "2019-08-03T23:17:48Z")
No, certainly not. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227/41 "2019-08-03T23:20:02Z")
Evidently we disagree. However I suspect this is neither on topic, nor within game so I will not pry further. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/you-going-to-need-to-spend-more-time-in-eve-after-the-change/179227.md?page=3)