Off-Topic Thread

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #2262

The essential element of any conflict is to break the will of your enemy to fight. There’s a myriad of ways to do so. That’s the whole joy of being a capsuleer, making your enemies, and then breaking them.

(Alizabeth Vea) #2263

I’m really confused as to the Matari objectives. Yes, I understand the end goal is freedom. However, there’s a variety of ways to get to that point.

Obviously, I prefer the way that involves some negotiation and compromise, but what other than that? There’s a cold calculation that says “Live Free of Die” spread throughout the slave population in the Empire will yield results, but that requires a heavy, heavy, heavy doubling down on the die part. The Amarr Empire will not issue a total emancipation at present. Believe me, I checked. So, it comes down to the Minmatar willing to die in so great a number, and taking as much as they can with them to force that option. If so much as ten percent of the slave population in Amarr decided to fight to the death for freedom, they’d get it. 2 trillion. 2,000,000,000,000 spread out in the Empire and rebelling all at once isn’t something the Empire can win. I know it. The Republic knows it. The Empire knows it. Even the slaves know it. (Of course, most of them are all in favour, so long as it’s someone else that is in the 10%)

So, yes. The “Live Free or Die” option is viable, but comes with a cost that would make everyone still human blanch.

The “Smuggling” option will actually yield results. Taking advantage of the chaos surrounding Thebeka and other words to smuggle out slaves works. We know it works, because there are billions, I would wager, slaves in the Tribal Republic that were smuggled out. So, yes. Effective, viable, with a proven track record. And, for the most part, no one is going to have a crisis of conscience at such a thing. Of course there will be deaths along the way: certain guards, slaves caught in the act, agents getting double-crossed, etc., but that’s incidental to the goal.

The thing is that these two courses are mutually exclusive. Both plans rely upon the same kind of people: slaves willing to take extreme personal risks for freedom. By smuggling people out, the Republic is actually creating a sort of pressure release valve in the Imperial slave population. The ones that would be inclined to fight with no other option (Live Free or Die) found that there is a way out.

Really though, you all calling for the slaves to Rise Up and then complaining that they’re going to get killed is schizophrenic. That’s the point of having them rise up: to choke the Empire with bodies.

I lost 720 Marines on Alkabsi. By our best countings, my Marines engaged and killed over 10,000 rebels. (The number in our War Diary is 10,224.) If the Tribes do not consider that a fair exchange, then they should stop fighting.

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #2264

Here lies your major mistake.

We are not a monolithic block. Maybe it is not always the same clans/corporations or individuals who do these?

(Alizabeth Vea) #2265

They really are. Both tracks pull from (most) the same personnel pool. There are outliers, but rebellion against actual Marines, trained warriors who come with their own tanks, arty, and battle armor, takes some serious courage, stupidity, or desperation when all you have is a lascarbine you took off a dead constable. Actually, all three.

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #2266

Your view on the topic is too narrow. Which is understandable for a ground forces commander, of course.

Unfortunately there is an alliance policy of not giving too many free clues to reds, so I will have to stop educating you here.

(Alizabeth Vea) #2267

Has Arrendis been giving you lessons on posting? That was amazing.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #2268

I decided to latch on to the quip because it was emblematic of the symptoms you see all the time here, where reality must somehow shift to accommodate the delusion that nullsec powers somehow don’t matter. That acknowledging their potential power is fearmongering. That respecting power for what it is, somehow shouldn’t be done. And there’s no appealing to emotion when they are deploying soldiers dirtside and that is going to kill a lot of our people. That’s just simple fact.

And yet, you wish to denigrate them, because they don’t spend their time in highsec, for some reason.

So yes, I do know you as a person. You’re weak. You kneejerk into a froth whenever nullsec or even lowsec entities are mentioned, in some desperate bid to trivialize them and that does imply that there’s massive inferiority complexes in play. As for my strength? I’m very easily outmatched by PIE, SFRIM, EM, whoever else. No fear of reprisal? Well no fear of it, but there is the expectation of it. That it doesn’t manifest is a failure of the enemy.

Arrendis is a novice compared to this. Elsebeth and her ilk have surgically removed the ability to speak straight.

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #2269

This seems to be your new favorite word for people not agreeing with Mizhara :wink:

(Mizhara Del'thul) #2270

For people who suddenly froth up and can’t back it up.

(Alizabeth Vea) #2271

I think it’s froth. Really. Hard to blame Miz for that. Froth is such a fun word.

(Teinyhr) #2272

So what you’re saying is, that you can’t think outside of your box and kneejerk into action when someone challenges your worldview and doesn’t go all “ooh, ah”, for all the years you’ve wasted. And have to resort into strawmanning me to keep up your own narrative in your head. Sad, really.

Then why bring up facts we both know? Why try to guilt me or anyone for that matter that we can’t prevent these atrocities alone? I think you were intending to goad an emotional response; “oh my gosh you’re right! I’ve been so blind! CVA is a terrible force of destruction! I’m so scared for our people!” Fact of the matter also is, if they weren’t in Empires favour, they’d be just as impotent to act in Thebeka as the rest 99% of us. Fact of the matter is, if they can land a million soldiers, then they can, and there is nothing you or I can do to stop them. Fact is, people will die. I’m under no illusion they won’t. Fact is, you have stated numerous times it is better to stand and die free than to die slowly on your knees. Fact is, that is what the rebels are doing. So what exactly is your point of concern, Mizhara?

P.S. Highsec is where the vast majority of all people live. People that matter. That’s part of the reason I don’t care about nullsec antics. People fight and die for nothing. I’m getting serious deja vu I’ve told you this numerous times before.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #2273

You don’t see the inherent problem with “grasping for relevance” and them so far being the greatest contributor of troops among capsuleers in Thebeka?

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #2274

Wasn’t it you who told me to to pipe it down, because with friends like these…? :wink:

(Teinyhr) #2275

Ah, so you have problems understanding the big picture. Contributing troops to Thebeka is grasping for relevance in itself. They noticed the publicity of Kahah and for a change try to assert themselves to the general populace of Thebeka and surrounding systems, and Amarr Empire in general. If CVA have done anything of similar note in the past few years than they are doing now, I’m sure you’ll enlighten me. Cursory galnet search didn’t even bring up any results of CVA forming ranks to protect the Empire from the temporary Drifter incursions.

In short: It’s all PR. PR at the cost of human lives. And you’re still giving it to them and more.

Yes, but me and Mizhara aren’t friends. Ideologically at the same side at most, but clearly polar opposites in almost any other relevant metric. You she seems to even respect.

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #2276

Sure has a funny way of showing it.

(Samira Kernher) #2277

The very first drifter attack in Amarr space was against what I believe was a hundred-strong CVA fleet of navy apocs. It was during their anniversary event in Sarum Prime. Of course, that’s different from forming up to ‘protect the Empire’. But as has been said, it certainly demonstrates the level of might they could field if they chose to do so.

Not that I see CVA choosing to do so.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #2278

I suppose you wouldn’t recognize honesty as such. Of course, Elsebeth hasn’t shown anyone outside of EM or PIE any respect since this conflict began.

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #2279

You actually want a fight, Snow-eater?

(Valerie Valate) #2280

Once upon a time, there was a man who called upon the Deceiver to grant him the longest possible penis in the world. And the Deceiver, being the Deceiver, granted the man his wish, giving him a penis long enough to encircle the world. And the man was greatly disturbed to find his own penis was poking him in the butt, on account of gravity and the curvature of the world.

The moral of the story being “be careful what you wish for, you may get it”

(Mizhara Del'thul) #2281

I suspect any fight between us would have very little value in terms of conflict resolution, would it? Just don’t start slinging around rocks in glass houses.