The entire Paragon concept is a massive crock of ****
2 Likes
The advantage is that you can get your EM faster.
Correct me if Iâm wrong, because I havenât bothered with these EM at all, but are these missions not limited to a single mission per day?
This means that your maximum daily EM increases by paying more ISK for the bigger ship. The added value and advantage of this is clear to anyone who wants to get EM fast.
Say, you want to have your corporation logo on a few of your doctrine ships before a big fight Tuesday, but can only obtain enough EM by turning in the bigger ships.
Well, you could turn in cheap frigates and get cheap EM, but then you wonât get enough EM in time. Or you could pay a little more (whatâs 60M after all?) and get more EM, faster.
Youâre paying extra for the advantage of getting your EM faster.
5 Likes
That I can agree on.
- Daily cooldown, that forces people to travel/jump clone daily from their home to whatever high or low sec station they need to be in to turn this in? Anti-player design choice.
- NPC âbuy ordersâ for ships? A step away from the player-ran economy that EVE is known for, and another bad design choice.
On the other hand, I like the idea of corporation and alliance logos on ships. I just wish they had chosen another way for players to earn the currency.
2 Likes
HAHAHA
Welcome to the XXI century! Now we are comparing apples with pears. Iâm not sure who you are poking - the OP or CCP 
Your arguments are very interesting. I see it could be a big issue for big alliance members not having the possibility to buy some corp logos before a fight. Therefore, I have a better idea⌠CCP should open these Paragon offices in NPC nullsec space, closer to the wealthy empires, with an offer the members canât refuse:
- Grant missions to exchange a BS for 4500 EM.
- Grant missions to exchange a Dreadnought for 5000 EM.
Thatâs a nice deal, right?! You can collect EM at double speed and youâll not be ashamed by turning those cheap and pesky small Frigates in hi-sec stations. What is more important, youâll not humiliate yourself by showing your -8.0 security status capsules in those super safe systems.
Of course, you may argue that 5000 EM is just too much for a Dreadnought. But I have a strong counter argument - thatâs completely fair because thatâs dangerous null-sec with negative security status, where bubbles are and other spooky things. Plus, you can fly Dreads in that part of space.
2 Likes
For me 2900 EM for a Venture is already too much, I have not bothered with traveling to those stations at all to turn in ships.
But, I can see that someone who wants to have an alliance logo in their Titan (I mean, if I had a Titan I would - everyone would be looking at it while taking the bridge) would care less about turning in some barges to get that logo faster. Whatâs a few barges anyway?
Are you thinking of low seccers perhaps? In null and wh space security status plays no role, you donât lose security status for shooting people, so thereâs no reason for people to be negative security status. The ones that occasionally shoot an NPC pirate will probably be level 5 security status.
I have removed some offtopic and inappropriate posts.
Please stay on topic and follow the rules.
5 Likes
Do you also complain that Level 4 missions are wildly different in LP rewards per minute?
Sometimes one mission is checks spreadsheet 1.8 minutes for 1271 LP and another is 23 minutes for merely 8314 LP? Thatâs what, â195% more expensive by design for no extra value?â
Why would Level 4 missions be OK but not specifically Paragon?
Why not mine the rocks to make your own retrievers yourself? Then itâs 0 ISK for a retrievers worth of EM.
3 Likes
Io, I thought better of you than that. 
3 Likes
Shh youâre ruining my trap
3 Likes
You can reject the missions until something nice like a T1 Frigate shows up.
but why do we need this?
Itâs just LP that shows in your wallet because itâs pushed by a Gallente conglomerate as the next big thing?
Why donât we link station skins or emblems to the Tribal Liberation LP store? Why is that not an âofficialâ currency? This could help a lot to defeat the Amarr occupation and bring peace to the Republic.
At least in that way, it would be linked to FW actions and not âgo to this station, buy a venture for 2x the price on that station and turn it inâ which is a very sad life experience and waste of valueable time for every person. Nobody is benefitting from this in any way. Not even the people who sell those ships at the stations because they could use their production slot for more valueable items 
The Amarr occupation of what? Your mind?
No one looks at your titan to find the tiny corp or alliance logo. What people are looking for is the jump bridge effect, which you only see from some zoom-out state. People will only ever start looking at your titan if CCP manages to get these Viper hologram effects from their boastful Fanfest presentations on the ship. Makes me wonder how many years weâll have to wait for those.
No need to zoom out!
Personally I have the radial menu open on the bridging ship while waiting, which automatically updates when the bridge activates, so I can instantly jump. Itâs both quicker and more reliable than looking for a graphical effect, and leaves less time for the targets to get away before the fleet arrives.
3 Likes
That is also true.
These decoration options were requested by players. I donât remember where and when, but I read/heard about it on evereddit, EVE Fanfest and EVE Vegas multiple times. Many players will use them in one or another way.
A Venture hull cost almost nothing for me now. I remember, being a rookie player, when I earned my first 1,000,000 ISK in EVE I felt so rich. Itâs a good example is how the Paragon rewards are interpreted by new players.
The EM concept isnât bad. Itâs some kind of âpassiveâ ship destruction, which will play well on Velocity of ISK. Way better than buying EM like daily Alpha Injectors or grinding like standard LP points. Itâs bad how itâs applied in the game via poor design. Itâs very uncomfortable for most players to travel to those Paragon stations in core systems to turn in a random daily quest. The reward system is just very bad, as mentioned above. It would be way better to build the Paragon stations around the map and allow their agents with different level missions, from level 1 to 5. Beginning from Frigates (L1) up to BS (L5) with respective good rewards. A 30 days structure decoration for 500 000 EM is hilarious bad. That will not work similarly to 30 days ship SKINs. Or those 30 days decorations cost must be way lower, or the EM rewards must be way higher. But itâs obvious that almost everyone wants to see them in the store, which is good for people and bad for the game.
I was sarcastic. Generally speaking, I wrote that post in satiric style - figure of speech.
Its called an ISK sink, and the game needs them to remain healthy
1 Like
Itâs not an isk sink, it is however also NOT an isk faucet. Building and selling ships is neither isk faucet or sink (other than taxation and costs along the way). However, normally ships are bought and used by players and those tend to explode which then pays out insurance and THAT is an isk faucet. So by removing the ships without them exploding that does affect money creation.
The whole system is kinda cool tho, from a design pov:
-
It makes groups work together for a common goal that in and of itself adds no power creep or functionality. Group cohesion is a good thing so thatâs a win.
-
it adds something funny/hilarious/desirable
-
it drives demand for ships and the resources required so builders and miners should be happy (but apparently theyâre not, theyâre never happy even when opportunity slaps them in the face)
-
it removes an isk faucet as explained earlier.
Its removing ISK from the game, it is by definition, a sink, those ships still had construction costs and sales costs if they were purchased by the person trading them in
1 Like
The sales tax in the game is the ISK sink. The portion of the ISK tax cost to manufacture the ship that doesnât go to the station owner is the ISK sink.
The actual Paragon transaction of âgive ship, receive Evermarksâ itself has no ISK sink. There is no primary effect of there being an ISK sink.
It might drive sales (which then applies the ISK sinks in the first paragraph) but this is a second order effect. And the accounting does not attribute the second order effect to the Evermark system itself.
The only reliable second order effect currently measurable is ship destruction via killmails, because the receipts are given to other players who can keep track of it.
Quite the opposite.
Turning in ships not removing ISK from the game and is therefore not an ISK sink.
Itâs an item sink, which has the opposite effect of an ISK sink, in that it increases the ratio of currency versus items in the game. An ISK sink would decrease the ratio of currency versus items.
Indirectly removing the ships from the game does have some effect on ISK:
- ship does not get sold to players, which means no ISK sink from sales tax
- ship does not explode, which means no ISK source from insurance payout
- ship also does not get insured at all, which means it also doesnât get the possible ISK sink of (repeated) insurance payments
Anyway, removal of these ships in not directly an ISK sink or source, but is an item sink.
2 Likes