Why are you active in null if you aren’t ready to counter an attack? That you can do that when PvEing against anything you aren’t ready to lose is assumed in null.
You keep posting replies that make me wonder why you are in null in the first place. You will escape every hunter in null if you are watching local. There is no risk.
How many people have killed someone when AFK? Give me a hard number. I’m not ‘snotty’ and I’ve never attacked you, you keep trying to bait me with insults, which is fine, I wish you would stay on topic though. It’s very funny that your response always is to ignore the topic and call me bad at the game. I look forward to you ignoring what I say again and resorting to personal attacks one more time.
All I want is a challenge in PvE in this game. No part of space outside of WHs has any challenge, assuming you’re awake and have local chat. Stop trying to keep EVE easy. Some of us want more than risk free ratting.
I agree with your analysis. Not sure if removing local is really the solution. I propose to make EVE smaller, forcing everyone closer together and thus creating potential for more conflict while also stopping the insane ISK faucet. Here: CCPls: make EVE smaller
The reason I prefer my solution is this: in the extremely unlikely event that CCP would get rid of local in Null, you can be 100% certain that AFK Ratting Groups will just fall back to using Cloaky Intel Bots on stargates instead - basically creating local with their own means.
There should always be NPC that tackle Ratters in every single Null Anom and on top of that I’d really like if EVE loses 3 out of 4 systems forcing conflict.
On the other hand, our proposals to make the game “better” for people like us will most certainly go unheard. We may not want to accept it, but EVE might have lost its Edge a while ago and what used to be legendary for smart people playing a dangerous and challenging game is just a mere shadow of itself, with only grinders still alive. If by a remote chance CCP realizes that they made a few mistakes on the way, we can’t really hope for changes that are drastic enough. The damage has been done and it might just be too late. Maybe it is time to accept that “our EVE” is a product for a smaller group of customers than Grind Online. And by staying around and taking part in discussion and providing refreshing change from their mining, all you do is taking away a bit of their boredom (as do I).
Let them choke in their grind instead and remember EVE for a game that used to be cool, how about it?
Its not a problem for the game if I can do this. it is also not a problem for the game if I knowingly select a space based on the possibility of doing this.
its also not a problem for the people that are irritated by this to destroy or capture the structures I use to do this with. Which would force me to live in NPC space and put up with all the disadvantages (mostly pve content lack) of doing so.
Incidently I do like to pvp, but on my terms. If the game was changed so pve always just turned into pvp, I’d just pve in highsec, and then sit around idle in nullsec when I wanted to pvp, cursing the total lack of hunters caused by the total lack of prey.
You merely want to fly the same ships you do in WH space and you see no reason to change your approach to get that crucial first tackle. So just stay in WH space and play there, no one is forcing you to go into other areas of space not suitable for you
There would be more prey if the prey didn’t have a mechanic to avoid hunters 100% of the time in null.
Answer my questions and I’ll stop asking (well, answer beyond “we don’t have a lot of people online, so it’s not fair”
You seem to have one of those cases of selective reading. I do mainly PvE in null and WHs, for the last six months or so almost entirely solo. I use the same ships in null and WHs for that today. I’ve never been a big hunter in EVE, and have never claimed to be. Have you seen my KB? It’s not what you’d see from a l33t PvP-er.
I want PvE to actually be challenging. I want null to be more than HS with better ISK payouts. I know you don’t feel the same. You’ve been hammering the same "keep null 100% safe for ratters) message for well over a year.
You said that you were in Goons, that was never 100% safe, but it was as safe as it could be in null sec, only the deepest space in DRF space can be safer due to the sheer number of systems and their distance from easy roams. I am not in such space, we have roamers, interceptor fleets and hot droppers coming in all the time, so to me your 100% safe is total baloney. It is not a case of selective reading but the reality of where I am, PVE is already a challenge in Catch and you have to defend yourself, as such your suggested change would make it just a loss leader, losing ships again and again to people that come in all the time.
I think Eve PvE is already challenging enough and I have operated in Stain NPC with people in system trying to stop me from operating, I have ratted with cloaky campers in system and so on, and the risk is real.
I have not been hammering anything to do with 100% safety because I am talking about the current system of local which balances off against the cyno, a total bypass of any way to block access and defend your space where people can just jump in and get past all your defences.
I don’t care what you do, most of the people I have come across from WH space hate the fact that they in WH space have no local but when they go into K-Space people know a neut is there, that is their issue, if they want no local they should stay in WH space, and part of this is that they cannot run around in brick tanked T3C’s to get on people but have to switch to something light and fast and if they get podded it is a pain, yeah right, they chose to live in WH space and there are negatives and positives.
People would not stay in null sec to rat without local and all you will see is VNI’s, I too can run burner missions for 200m an hour, I actually get less ISK in nullsec than that by the way, but its more fun, but as it is now I hardly rat because I make more and more of my ISK from indy.
So I repeat, there is no 100% safety in null sec, your premise and feeling is way off base.
I was in more than just one nullsec group, and I’ve said over and over any part of sov null is 100% safe to ratters.
Are you telling me you can’t look at local chat when ratting? Please read before replying. I’ve been PvEing solo in null and WHs for a long time and don’t die…it’s extremely safe. Hammering 100% safety is all you’ve been pushing for.
…did you really just say most people in WHs hate not having local? Please stop just saying whatever you think is the best bait for these threads, drac.
Basically your argument against removing local from null is this: “The people who currently rat in 100% safety in null will leave, because they care more about personal ISK gain than about building an empire in null” Good, let’s hope that happens. That would be a positive move for nullsec.
You seem to be saying all the people you know in null only fly VNIs or the like if they have any kind of risk to their ships. You do realize that’s the exact attitude we need to get rid of in null, right?
Doesn’t matter your attitude is coloured by your time in the Goons.
I don’t know how on earth you can extrapolate to me not looking at local when I rat, seriously that is insulting and stupid. There are plenty of ways to catch people and the periods of vulnerability are there, my alliance mates catch people because they know this, you talk about 100% safety because you don’t and you base it on Goons.
I think you need to read that again about WH people and local, or you are just trolling because you know what I said is true.
That is you opinion of what I said, what I said is that nullsec is not safe and if local is removed then with cyno’s it would be too dangerous and difficult for the majority of people, I also pointed out that the only ships left in nullsec will be VNI’s and the odd shiny ship in very heavily defended and scouted space. That is your interpretation of what I said in terms of VNI’s, not what I was actually saying, so I think you are trolling again.
I had you noted as a massive troll and your bait troll post is yet again proving it.
Why are you so focued on goons? Stay on topic please. You brought them up, not me.
In years of living in WHs I can count on one hand the WH dwellers who complain about not having local. I forgot though, you’ve flown through them a few times, so I will defer to what you think.
If someone would not live in null because they are afraid of getting killed, they shouldn’t live in null. Again, why are you in null in the first place? How has it not hit you that your attitude is the definition of risk averse? And again, nothing wrong with playing that way.
I already pointed out you baiting me to try and troll me, it’s a little weak that your only response is to say the same thing back. If you’ve written me off as a troll and threatened to block me multiple times, why do you keep responding?
EVE used to be very difficult, moreso outside of HS. It’s not that way between HS and null anymore. If you have a better idea to make null actually risky again than removing local, please bring it up and try to keep this conversation constructive.
You brought up that you were in the Goons previously in this thread.
Well you certainly seem to have gone full dumb troll mode now, I said WH player hate having local when they go into nullsec, you converted it into that, seriously mate you have issues.
The rest of your pap is one big yawn and troll bait…
you brought up goons first, try to keep up please.
I’ve never met a WH dweller who complains about local in WHs, I do know WH dwellers who wished there wasn’t local in null.
That local shouldn’t be in null is the point of this thread Drac.
Let me ask again, why are you in nullsec in the first place? I look forward to you ignoring the question again. Now respond to what I said for once and try to keep on topic.
Again, there’s nothing wrong with you wanting to PvE in null with no risk. That’s what you enjoy, we get it. I just don’t agree that should be a thing in game. We can agree to disagree on that.
Going into WH space is a player’s choice. The lack of local is clear from the get go. If people complain about the lack of local in Wh, they get rightfully pointed back to null/low/high because that’s where local is. For the exact same reasons, we point people who aren’t happy about the presence of local in null back toward WH where what they are looking for already exist.
A lot of the prey you wish for just would not be there in the first place. That’s what you keep missing out on. Do you assume are in null just for “easy and safe PvE” to stay there if local is gone? They are all out as soon as that happen so you can kiss those prey goodbye. What others than those will do is up for guess and entirely dependent on how much they want to deal with extra hassle when they could do their income grinding elsewhere.
Frosty, I’m not missing that there will be less people in null. That’s a good thing. That makes HS more dangerous given more people, which increases suicide ganking and general fun in HS (like there used to be) as well as makes EVE seem big again (like it should). making null dangerous and making it seem like a massive universe are both good goals. Having less populated null systems isn’t a negative.
Why are you even mentioning income? Let’s stop making everything focused on how much ISK you can make and focus on what is good for the game. This is a game, not a job. Making the most money isn’t the goal.
@Sonya_Corvinus Ok there’s a couple of things people like @Dracvlad have tried to make you understand.
Ratting in null is NOT 100% safe. There are spies and there’s bad luck, both things you can’t do anything against, if it hits you, prepare to lose big
Backup can’t save you all the time, because people in nullsec have RL to attend to, you don’t always have the numbers online to counter any attackers
Also in order to adress
Living in Nullsec often is a choice of playstyle, more than anything else. It’s a place where meaningful goals can be achieved by working together. If a dedicated null player does not like null anymore, I’d say it’s much more likely he simply stops playing alltogether rather than going back to highsec, litterally nothing will be achieved by trying to ruin nullsec for its residents. If anything I’d say removing local is only going to force null players even closer together. Farming will happen exclusively in extremely well guarded places, good luck finding your content there.
I understand what he’s saying. I don’t agree. If you’re watching local chat and being alert, you can never die in null while PvEing (sure, you can be awoxed, but outside of that).
You hit the nail on the head. “sometimes you don’t have the numbers for backup”. That means your group isn’t big enough to live in null, or you should be playing more conservatively until you get numbers online.
You have another good point. Living in null is a choice in playstyle. You should have to work together. That means it should be extremely difficult to rat, mine or do industry solo. You should have to work together. Null is safe enough that’s not the case at all.
Removing null would absolutely force players closer together. Good! That opens systems currently part of an alliance’s sov up for other groups to take over. That means more diverse groups in null in their own small clusters. That would be an amazing result.
I’m just gonna throw something out here into Drac and Sonyas love affair. One of you says that with no local there would be more targets because less safety for PvE, and one of you says that with no local there would be less targets because less safety for PvE. In actual fact nulsec would still provide the most profit (forget incursions and burners for a sec) overall. So maybe at first all the PvE players die and nobody wants to PvE, but then there’s no targets and nobody want to hunt there either. So then there would be a bit more PvE there for a bit and so on, until eventually nulsec settled into a slightly new paradigm where people do PvE and people hunt the people doing PvE. Balance would of course be found, again, like with every other change that has happened or will. This whole discussion is silly, neither of you know what would happen. All we know is that the playerbase would adapt and that everyone spouting extremist propaganda one way or the other is as usual just defending their own chosen playstyle or generally being needlessly apocalyptic.
What i will say is that a common theme permeates both of your views. You both agree loss of local will make things less safe for nulsec players. It is my personal opinion that making things less safe creates more content one way or another than either increasing safety or maintaining the status quo. Having had a think, I reckon i side with the remove local people, if only on the basis that EvE would be a hell of a lot of fun for the following 6 months until control is re-established. It’s my opinion that the recent changes in EvE toward increased safety and hand holding have done nothing but dilute what was once the pinacle of sandbox gaming, and at this stage anything that makes pretty much anything LESS safe gets my vote.
I don’t know if you’ve ever lived in nullsec, but players are humans, not machines. If you’ve ever worked in security you would know that nobody is 100% aware of everything going on all the time. That’s where the risk in nullsec is coming from, and I’m not talking about going AFK here.
People have lives, man. If I can play 2 hours on thursday evening and am booked out the rest of the week, then I’d like to get a bit of farming done, chat with my friends or go on a small roam. As for groups not being big enough… Smaller, more dedicated groups in null more often than not are content drivers, so eliminating them is not going to do any good.
You’re stretching the definition of solo a bit here, but ok. Doing stuff “solo” to me means without being part of a group, and yes, very few people do that (in NPC null though).
I’m going to tell you that honestly I don’t know about that. I’m not an expert on power projection. Maybe you’re right, maybe not, not going to pretend to know better. I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt though, since the current sov system currently has its issues.
So how big is big enough? Because it sounds like you are suggesting that the only people who should be allowed in null are the mega coalitions. Because those are the only people able to field that kind of firepower.
I have lived in null. Most of the five years I’ve played this game actually. I know it’s more difficult than HS (or is supposed to be). I’ve lost PvE ships in null, and it was only because I wasn’t paying attention. The problem in null isn’t that you have to be 100% aware of everything. It’s that you just have to watch local and hit warp when a name that’s not blue shows up. That’s all.
Solo in the way I meant it means not in a fleet and working together at the same time.
I get that people have lives and can’t play hardcore all the time. People also don’t need to be in null 100% of the time. I’ve quit corps more than a few times because I didn’t have the time IRL to dedicate to playing in more dangerous parts of space.
No, not only mega corporations. Big enough to always have 5-6 people active in every system held would be a decent measuring device. You could be a corp holding one or two systems and fit in an alliance very nicely.
Getting rid of local would help the little guy though. As it’s been said, if it’s harder to defend your space, the larger groups would consolidate without local chat, giving up systems for smaller groups to take control of.
