You did read what I wrote correct? You are literally talking about the lawsuit over a casino app which gives you coins over a long cooldown period OR you can buy them right now for cash. Now read my quoted text again and think to yourself if maybe I already said that’s gambling.
Isk can be earned rather quickly in game with no restrictions as to how fast you can obtain it. Just because you can speed things up by buying plex and then sell it rather than use it to purchase skins or game time is player choice does not mean this is the only way to obtain isk in a timely fashion unless you take the stance of a credit card warrior with no interest in actually playing the game. So no, the two are nothing alike and even suggesting something like that in jest is insulting to the entire CCP dev team.
As far as RNG in games go, have you really never played another MMO ro game in general before? It’s a basic part of every game to add that big of excitement and give you a reason to continue grinding out the mobs to get what you’re after. Go look up skinner box for that matter, that’ll give you a quick example of what RNG used poorly can produce. These plasmids are just something to shake the game up a little, they won’t make or break most engagements even on a good roll. If something seems out of line CCP has already said they’d step in and adjust numbers as needed. So take it for what it is, fun, and please stop trying to read into everything that is RNG as being some form of gambling for everyone’s sanity.
EDIT - I’ve been following the whole loot box things pretty damn closely. So you really aren’t going to convince me something so petty should fall under the gambling umbrella. You are literally what many of us fear when it comes to trying to push us all off the slipper slope we’re now facing.
the same they told us when they introduced SP trading. That there are 2 ways to obtain SP injectors, but when SP trading hitted TQ CCP had the best year in terms of making money, coincidence? It’s just open another door to spend money on the game. Game is free, true, but for someone who don’t want to grind and just want to use credit card, another opportunity just open.
last time I checked lootboxes can’t be described as gambling because as the verdict says “you still get something value from them”. Which is bad game design when you can’t advance in the game without them, still nothing to compare with rng mutated modules.
Make it so a mutaplasmid makes a T1 module an automatic success into a T2 module.
Make it so DED/LP/Officer modules can be pimped with mutaplasmids.
T2 needs to remain the universal baseline for PvP, both in stats and cost.
If you want a bling/advantage module, get a DED/LP/Officer mod. (As now).
If you want something super-bling, or specific, look into the mutatated DED/LP/Officer contract market. (But be prepared to pay the mutators added value/overhead).
Extractors were at their core a money grab. I detest them in every way. I can see the good they’ve caused, but I fully believe they have caused far more harm to our community than good. I’ve been over it several times before in other threads, so just know I hate them and still believe they have no place in EVE.
These plasmids are fine, albeit a stretch for any lore standpoint, if you want to view them as anything it should be as a module sink. Most modules in the game are overly abundant with respects to how many are produced vs how many are actually destroyed in PVP. In addition to increasing the destruction rate of some modules it adds interesting new possibilities to fits and a relatively static environment where we know exactly what to expect out of the enemy ships we’re facing if they’re fit with any particular module.
You need to pay more attention to the whole debate then. What verdict exactly are you talking about? Several countries have already stated several are (specifically Netherlands and Belgium) and it’s not long before the entire EU follows suit. Other countries may take more time but this will surely spur them on as well. Pretty much every country currently has their own investigations into the matter as to what should define gambling in the virtual realm and it’s effects on children. So while we can argue semantics here, what I stated before is currently what is likely to be going into place at least over in the EU. Obviously with a lot more words and legal phrasing.
lore…if they only don’t be called mutagen mods, what would be wrong with tunning for example? We have so many abundant amount of modules because most of them are drops, they don’t fall under supply/demand rule, they will drop anyway and in most common farm areas it is become toxic for the market (like overfarmed machariels with price lower than navy BS - explorers told CCP that will be the problem when they increase escalation ratio, they still pushed the change). I don’t know about the fits possibilities. Rise was mentions about how many repairers? 44? We already have that in game, we already don’t know what is the fit of the opponent we fighting. Furthermore when I find fun fit I want it to become repeatable, now we will have to find mods everytime we lose hull, which is common in pvp. It would be fun change when the EvE was 2 not 15. Produce a module and tune it to be something better. Now it’s just f***** up with everything and looks like money gambling grab. Monetize team don’t sleep, alphas are fail, SP farming didn’t help either. Ideas are drained (because rng rolling is so great in other mmos…), CCP don’t even show us roadmap for the future.
I think it was in US and was about lootboxes in new battlefront, but it was different becaue those were bought directly for a cash I think. In EvE CCP can always hide behind "but you can farm ISK and don’t spend single .
The first part is nearly gibberish, but I can tell you this. Just because you find it fun to use the same static fits over and over for all eternity doesn’t mean other’s feel the same way. It’s just something we’ve dealt with and made the best of over the years. Nothing about this will force you to use them or change your fits, in fact most players, I’d argue, will never actually use them outside of PVE or solo/small gang which is their target audience. Large fleets will remain static as they rely on the consistency doctrines provide, not exactly something you can obtain from random roll modules.
This is just wrong. And I originally had a fairly lengthy reply to correct you on just the battlefront issue itself as well as what was actually said/introduced by Washington Senator Kevin Ranker. But to sum it up, it had nothing to do with direct or indirect purchases of lootboxes, but everything to do with lootboxes or similar mechanics were specifically designed to target children. It also pushed for state officials to discuss the best way moving forward to regulate such practices. Later resulting in a commission being formed to look into what constitutes gambling in the virtual realm and it’s effects on children. Of which, we still haven’t heard anything back in an official capacity yet from any state.
The same cannot be said for over in the EU. Where several countries have already made a decision based on their existing laws and issued ultimatums to companies like EA to either remove the systems outright or be fined/jailed. Many more, actually looking to alter current laws to better encompass both real and virtual forms of gambling. We can only wait and see what happens. But I can tell you this, there’s not a snowballs chance in hell something as petty as this will even appear on the radar of actually being gambling, let alone predatory to children.
I’d beg to differ. There’s a reason why people know to orbit past 10 to avoid a scram, 14 for a web, etc. It’s expected to be the case because there are no variants outside of faction to push it past that. Of which you typically don’t run into these in areas like FW where the most solo and small gang action takes place in cheaper disposable ships.
These stand a chance at being affordable (or at least a cheaper) alternative to faction/deadspace to go have fun on occasion to catch some people off guard without risking a 100m+ isk module that cost more than your hull.
it’s not it, when you find “cool” fit with mutated module, you may never find it again because of randomized stats. So instead of being undocked you’ll browse market for modules. That’s why we have “buy the fit” option from fitting window.
B) Makes PvP unpredictable and makes modules even more important than now in deciding outcome of an engagement. The introduction of mutated T2 modules screws with PvP balance.
Overheating, better skills, drugs etc.
Also not all DED/LP modules are equal, even now.
There is variation in stats.
I’ve totally read that, just that some people might still see it as gambling in the end. I agree with that beeing a slippery slope and I too have seen the Skinner Box about RNG. “RNG being gambling” is not my view in any way. I just think RNG is unfair because that’s what the bell curve predicts. Some are very Lucky, some are very unlucky. Majority is in the middle.
I don’t care if it’s gambling or not gambling. I just want RNG to be done right. Right way => Fair. With protections against the (negative) outliners. You shouldn’t have a big disadvantage for no reason (bad luck) and you ideally should not have a big advantage for no reason (good luck), but most publishers involved with anything RNG just can’t provide that and if takes the “gambling stigma” to get them into good RNG and away from bad RNG, than I will gladly accept gambling as a tool to force them.
I could totally live with removing the bad luck while keeping the good luck, but I won’t be happy with just pure RNG.
I can see where you’re coming from. I may not agree entirely as part of what makes it interesting is the bad that comes with the good which causes some modules to simply become horrible, insuring these mutated modules will not completely nullify the usefulness of faction/deadspace. And I have played many an MMO in my time to see RNG done poorly as well, but the RNG in those games typically was the same everywhere, not a single part of it like they’re implementing now. But again, I do see where you’re coming from.
@Salvos_Rhoska it’s supplementary at best, not replacing due to their RNG nature. You may get one with equivalent stats but at the end it may cost a lot more to fit it, or the other way around. Getting that golden goose module will be unreliable and likely never see pvp action outside of the AT.
As far as making PVP unpredictable, GOOD! How is that anything but good? If you didn’t realize it, an overheated T2 scram hits to 10, that’s why we orbit past 10. An overheated T2 web goes out to 13, hence 14. And on and on, if you see a command desi or something that can boost, you adjust. Drugs effect weapon stats, tank, capacitor, speed, and sig. That’s it, not something you can really assume to be fit and adjust for in combat on the fly like you can with an actual module like web, scram, point, neut, smartbomb, grapple, etc. I feel like I’m having to even tell you this because you actually don’t know yourself, which makes me think you have very little experience in the PVP realm. Especially since you brought up drugs when it comes to changing your tactics in an engagement. I’ll give you a hint, just assume they’re using one for tank and another for tracking.
My point was, that the target audience for these mid-tier modules is the solo/small gang crowd who don’t care as much about doctrine-style standardized fits. The one’s who wouldn’t otherwise consider fitting a faction/deadspace module unless it was absolutely required for fitting.
This will raise T2 prices, due to T2 sink, thus de-incentivizing PvP via cost.
Whether unpredictable PvP due to anomalous modules is “good” depends on the player. Some will like it, some not.
This will eat into the DED/LP module market, by introducing a T2.5 market.
Whether you think those are good for the game overall, is up to you.
I think they are not, and amount to just another Player NS power-play to sell more T2, and get in on/compromise the DED/LP market.
Im just telling you how this is going to play out.
Ya, I’d make a pretty high wager that I’m correct on this. I just can’t even fathom the market reacting the way you seem to think it will. I’m pretty heavily invested in all things industry and have been for a very long time so I can say with a high amount of certainty that what you think will happen is really not likely at all.
The T2 price may see a slight uptick, but that’s because any increase in use will obviously cause an uptick in prices. How much will largely come down to how common these mutagens are and what modules they are used on the most. My money is on webs, disruptors, and repair modules. However, modules do not consume a large amount of resources to produce and would be very easily and quickly replaced by eager upstart industrialists. Will null profit? Of course, but not as much as you’d think. Most modules found in HS are provided by low/hs itself. Null typically only makes final products for itself and only exports raw goo or complex reactions. On occasion you see overstock from doctrines shipped out, but it’s not typically economically viable to do so with fuel costs that already have limited or non existant profit margins when selling these modules in trade hubs like Jita. There are a few exceptions, but not many, but most of the modules that do fall into this category aren’t even able to be used with mutagens.
Bottom line here is, the uptick is likely to be so insignificant we’ll be lucky if it even attracts new industrialists to produce them, let alone disincentivize anyone from fitting out a ship for PVP.
I agree 100% but I’d bet it will cause more fights than not which is always good. Someone who got away by a few meters may now find themselves tackled and actually win a fight they would have rather avoided. Obviously that isn’t likely to be a common occurrence, but a fight is better than no fight.
This T2.5 market will likely only be done via contacts/forums and maybe another 3rd party if someone takes the time. So it’s very unlikely to cut too deeply into that market. If anything else it will likely spur that market forward as there will be people who choose to try their luck on faction modules. So it can really only help those trying to make a living off selling DED/LP.
We obviously take two very different stances on this. All we can do is wait and see how it plays out.
We will see.
I dont see how it could do anything but as I outlined in point form above.
Too late to cry over spilled milk then.
Increased T2 sink, with no PvP requirement.
Raised T2 prices, on mats and products.
Unpredictable PvP, due to anomalous T2.5 modules.
Less PvP, due to higher T2 cost.
T2.5 modules eating into DED/LP module market.
All that things are quite possible but the size of the effect will depend on the probability & cost of creating a T2.5 module.
What I’m sure is whose are called “wallet warriors” will wear t2.5modules if the cost is similar to green modules. That will not create better content for the rest of players, just more boring content.
A +10% mwd will be expensive, that’s sure. What about a +3% ? If everybody start using such +3% module where is the unpredictabiliy ?
All depends on balance, I hope CCP starts with a good balance to do not ruin the game we love.
You do not change your foundations to add another bathroom on the second floor.
Changing the base stats to make abyssal mods work is ludicrous and utterly lazy.
The idea to nerf existing modules to accommodate new ones is asinine, and i do hope that they’re simply voicing it to show management or whoever just how stupid a plan it is based on community feedback. I can hope.
I’m honestly confused why they have to come up with and code an entirely new set up modules and ships to make this whole gimmick work. Why not just have plasmids bind to t2 modules with some other PI input mods, and make them t3 modules? They fall under the ‘reverse engineered’ category that t3 cruisers and dessies do anyway, so it would make sense from both a consistency and lore standpoint to ditch the ‘mutation’ idea in favor of that. Besides, binding plasmids to t2 modules inflates their price so it helps out the t2 mod producers anyway. Win-win.
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