Similar to the Rorqual, we want to continue the transition for the Orca to be a value to other miners, while still giving it worth-while mining yield such that it’s not a position relegated to AFK-alt status. did you not read the above Zumbas. They know its being used for AFK mining STFU
1 Like
The Orca with the worse yield and ridiculous compression tedium is not giving people value that is enjoyable. It just makes the Orca worse and a fuel-consuming click-fest instead of actually giving it good value. Instead, it drives people into more alts with barges and exhumers to compensate.
STFU much?
3 Likes
2 weeks, give or take, until this mess goes live on TQ.
If you let your expectations over rule past experience with CCP releases, you’re already not going to be happy
Well, I´m not against what they said, I´m against the principle that 99% of all orcas that fly are used by AFK members!!! Didn´t you read that too?
Plus, and again, as solo miner, Orca is the best for me, with a lot of space for ore, defense against assholes and so on… What is killing me is the statement that all that use Orcas, all are AFK, offering a marvellous solution to all the issues in EVE is this one…
Right…
I they could offer a bonus for solo players like myself, I could take the hit… But I don´t see how this is going to be better for all miners, namely the solo… What you will get is more multibox (oh… that would mean that someone will be… AFKKKK cause they piloting other ships… but probably that doens´t matter right? ;)), more grind to mine and with waste, with less eficiency which will cause to… mining will die as job, will be something for the rookies in big corps or bots…
Keep going guys, this is the right path to follow!
2 Likes
Nah, but make Orcas usable and capable of fullfilling the intended support role wich she can´t currently.
This whole thread summed up: “I want more, give me more. It’ll be better for m… the game! Yeah that’s right, the game would be so much better for it. I’m not trying to personally benefit from this, oh no. I want balance you see, honest”.
3 Likes
If the game is no longer enjoyable… it’s not good for the game eh?
1 Like
Those never were valuable. Just go to -1.0 sec and clap a hauler spawn. Each of the spawn has 3 rats where 2 drops 52M Tritanium each and the third rat drops a smaller, but still multiple-DST flights to haul amount of either Nocxsium, Isogen, Pyerite, Mexalon and Megacyte. The haulers spawn up to 4 times a day if you chain the belt rats, so you can collect about 3B isk of minerals per day … just with the little detail that in null only newbros get excited over them, longer term residents don’t even bother to loot the hauler wrecks any more because it was so much effort and with everyone and his dog having abundand minerals, you can’t sell them either.
They aren’t rare, and back when they were in highsec they weren’t rare in high either. Like the rock size was not so small-ish.
But back in the day though there still was the triglivian invasion running, which had its roam fleets randomly appear in non-incursion systems and take care of the miners, whether afk or not, alot better then CODE could even wish to be able.
The right idea, but not possible because scarcity left so little rocks in lowsec that the diamond mining fleets deplete all ore in the lowsecs in 30 minutes after it spawns, and with multiple diamond fleets flying around in low you need a quite sophisticated player effort to prevent all of them from mining the ore
If you mined the ore in highsec, you’d actually make income by selling the ore and buying the minerals from a lowseccer, you know? If you want to be competitive, you find a player-operated rigged refinery in lowsec that has public access to it’s reproc module, haul the ore you mine in high to that refinery, reproc there, and haul the minerals to wherever you want to manufacture. If you can reproc in null or wh-land that’s even better.
By reproccing Veldspar in highsec, you lose 15% of it!
Production price with all input materials bought in jita SELL is below 200M isk. Just build it yourself if you feel it’s too expensive.
They aren’t. They’re forcing you to get an orca alt even if your main has an orca. One to sit in a POS with engaged crab, and the other on the mining grid.
If you crab on the mining grid you’ll litteraly be able to see CODE fly in but rather then to attack you, to get into a good starting possition and wait for your siege timer to end. They’ll need less dessies because all of them are in blaster range from the first moment rather then half of them only joining the attack after some seconds, but more important, sitting next to a miner and having him know he’s going to die now but letting him wait for his execution is a good way to bully a miner.
I don’t think, despite all the crying in the forums, that BS construction ever was an issue. If there was an issue, it’s the Orca, which needs 40 Core Temps, and that’s like half a dozen Jita runs in a DST to get all the PI.
Not sure about the laser, but bacteria that can survive the freezing cold, and or direct exposure to cosmic radiaton, doesn’t breathe air and can survive for years w/o source of energy are well known. Those that live in your intestine and digest the food you eat, for example, don’t breathe air, and can survive getting frozen to temperatures way below the human host can survive in.
Not sure about eve moons not having an atmosphere, either.
BS aren’t not used because they’re expensive, but because there’s a lack of things you can do with them. They’re only really good for fleets, and by fleets I don’t mean your battleship main and your assault frigate tackle alt, but a decent number of BSs backed by dedicated remote repairs, dedicated tackle and dedicated ewar, and the fleet’s potential degrades massively if any of those elements are not present, while remote repairs can be ewar-ed and tackle can be nuked, putting a challenge to the fleet, that, if not handled well, has a good potential to kitchensink billions of isk worth of ships… and also needs quite a few players to run properly. Players… not just alts that get fleet warped, fleet blopsed and fleet filamented. You can have as many hit-f1 artillery boat alts in a fleet as you want, but your remote reps and your tackle, and the fleet command chain, need to pay attention and have good reactions.
A PVE challenge worth deploying large player fleets does not exist. There are incursions, but they work by making rats powerfull by having them bypass game mechanics, rather then the rats using on-grid tactics and strategy or actually being an aritifcial intelligence, i.e. evaluating the outcome of it’s own actions and making future decisions based on previous “experience”.
Instead of Battleships, Droneboats, especially the Ishtar, rule the PVE world, because they can be deploy-and-forgotten in lvl5 sites. Battleships might require less attention to be played then the other fleet elements, but they require attention nevertheless. An Isthar doesn’t. And that’s what people like.
But missions and sigs and anoms and sleeper sites and diamonds are kind of crappy anyways?
Noone lived in a wormhole for a prolonged time and didn’t find an Interdictor warping on him while he was ratting and tackled by the sleepers.
Noone living in Null didn’t have his ESS stolen after having closed his client, and with the ESS a good portion of the ratting income was gone.
Noone living in Lowsec didn’t have a hotdrop raining down on him while missioning or mining
Noone living in Highsec didn’t have suicide gankers clap him at a stargate even if he was in a tanky ship w/o any expensive module or loot on it
But there’s another way of PVE. There’s… the abyss. It’s our Paradise. The place we can’t be ganked in. That prints ISK like no other. That drops Blueprints and Mats. On top of Items. And unlike escallation loot or officer modules, we’re not even depending on the mood of other players to buy the purple mod to get rich, because there’s NPC buyorders for most loot, while the BPCs provide for the ships and modules that are among the best ships to clap citadels and capitals with, and are therefore popular with blue ring nullseccers. But then the isk is so sweet, that we don’t really care about using those BPCs or building stuff any more, because the isks price of those ships is so low, we just buy them. Production’s for miners, dude.
The Abyss disallows ships larger then cruisers and has content that is specifically designed, according to CCP, to not be afk-droneboat-able. Which is why, with a single account, the Gila is the best ship to run lvl6 abysses with. I’m lying, it’s the Ishtar. But unlike in lvl5 k-space anoms/missions, the Ishtar receives so much damage and cap pressure in the Abyss that it cannot sufficiently tank with regular modules but needs an ancillary repair mod on top of the regular deadspace repair one(s), and the ancil needs to manually be stopped and reloaded, while the Ishtar needs to be manually manouvered manually while the ancil’s off in order to not get clapped… so much work, let’s just use the Gila instead. The only problem with the Gila is that it does the afk-boat thing just so proficiently that the user gets tempted to just make another account, plex some skill injectors and get a second Gila that can also afk-abyss to generate twice as much iskies in the same time…
After having afk-farmed enough isk with those 2 toons to plex omega and skillinject a third gila account, which took the user a whole morning of watching netflix while not forgetting about needing to move the gilas to the next room every few minutes, one of the gilas leaves an abyss and returns to 1.0 sec just to see a dozen hurricanes, ceptors and assault frigates that nuke the 5B isk gila and loot the expensive officer and deadspace modules with an alt that didn’t aggess and therefore didn’t get insta-concorded, either. At that point, the Gila user turns around and cries about suicide gankers being abusive and breaking the game economics, over being able to grab so much isk in no time doing basically nothing (determine who’s running expensive fits, scanning down his abyssal extraction location, preparing the ambush, performing the Gila extermination before CONCORD arrives in the next moment, …)
Just look at the price tags on killmails for the abysall gilas, and you will know that the price to buy battleships never was an issue to begin with
which drops
for a total of 6.5B
which drops
for a total of 6.5B.
Note it’s the same guy just a few days later, and the capsuleer’s not even half a year old
[…]
dropping
for 6B. No clue who he is but a few days earlier he was cheapboating with a little
that dropped
totaling 4B only. Death serves him well for trying to cut on costs.
It’s not that these people are burning horrendous amounts of credit card charge-ups to recover their losses, each 20 minutes they generate half a billion isk in the abyss anyways, so who cares about losing a 6B fit once in a week?
Oh, there’s also a bot for the abyss that can easily be found with any websearch. No other ratting sites have bots, because dropping an afk ishtar is just too easy, but even if it afk farms the site, you still need to interact with the client to move the isthar to the next site. The Abyss bot handles everything and also claims to be capable to blockade run your abyss loot to npc markets to sell it, buy new drones if lost, and what not. Fully automated Droneboat Drone, the way of Gallente.
With this crap ongoing, what Capsuleers unite to is to stand up against …
CODE? But without the courage to really stand up against it, go clap CODE’s POSs they have in highsec and can’t exist without due to their -10.0 security rating? Camp the undocks of NPC stations used by CODE? Wreck their Citadels in Lowsec? Or at the very least, tell the other miners, no need to enforce or anything, just at least TELL the other miners not to pay permits CODE who everyone knows will use that money to fund a suicide gank his corp mates , just a second later? Naaah… better to complain and have CCP do something about it - which they won’t.
Battleship Prices? They need less minerals then before the industrial update and the PI that they need in large excess is supposed to be mass producable soon, but then people cry that they don’t want that because it could break the income from their PI.
R4 minerals? High can’t produce capitals, and moon goo can’t be compressed. What would all the Pyerite and Mexallon be used for? Especially, what would it be used for that doesn’t also use Veldspar in large amounts, and therefore wouldn’t be better to used minerals reprocced from Scordite, Pyrox and Plagioclase? If Pye and Mex is really so valuable, why is the Arkonor Price so low that everyone’s considering it a better idea to just jettison it to get ridf of, rather then to haul it to a refinery, compress it and sell it to highseccers who appearently have a need for it?
In case miners even undock to clear the anom of cause, most null miners don’t want to mine anything but Mex and Moons these days anyways. “Just not worth the time”
5 Likes
How on earth did you get from
- Increasing the resistance profiles of all exhumers
- Increase the base HP of, and adding mid slot to, Covetor and Retriever
- Adding new gas harvesters for all mining barges and exhumers
To hitting them with the nerf bat ? The Procurer you even tag-teamed (your ruining a perfectly good mining barge) 
Why are you making Skilling up for T2 a bad thing ?
Can you plz stop fu the game !!!
PS Quantum Cores needs to go
K
2 Likes
player subscriptions are not a god given right
20 Likes
Indeed, which is the intention of this change.
Orcas will now be less useful for solo mining operations, but any mining group will want at least one for the extra yield and utility these ships bring to the rest of the mining fleet.
And CCP even kept the mining drones and is eventually adding compression, which means the Orca pilot is even less of an ‘AFK alt’ role than before!
I mainly see positives for Orcas as mining support ship in this change. The only negative change for Orcas is that people who previously thought Orcas were good solo mining ships will now be encouraged to pick up a barge or exhumer instead.
1 Like
@CCP_Psych
When are the suggested being correctly reflected on SiSi?
Currently, the exhumer skill does not seem to be applying correctly to the ships, e.g. the resistance per skill level is not applying to the skiff correctly. Without any resistance modules active the EM resistance is 0, but it should have some EM resistance given the ship bonuses.
Thank you in advance.
1 Like
and that you have to lock yourself on the grid to not have worse boosts than befor this “upgrade” flagging yourself as a meaty pinata
while not beeing able to support your fleet as you did befor this “upgrade”
and beeing reduced to nothing but a compression bot.
or in other words using a porpoise instead is far better as you have the same benefits without the hefty pricetag above your head.
The Porpoise sure is a good option in risky situations.
But hopefully there will be enough situations where an Orca is a better option because of the larger ore hold, better boosts, higher yield, ship maintenance bay, higher repairs and such.
the yield is the same, better repairs don´t matter when you lack the highslots and the fittingspace to even slot remote boosters or repairs, while the boost advantage is miniscule and only existing when you flag yourself as a sitting-duck…
this entire Orca change is horrible and does not in any case relfect the verbalised dev-blog intention. beside nerfing drone mining wich i´m fine with.
It’s not the yield that makes the Orca useful.
I agree that the Orca (and Porpoise) will need extra high slots when the compression modules are added.
do not forget the self-destruction module aka CiC…
The issue with the orca change is the orca usage* is an emergent solution to a bad balance/game decision that’s been in the game so long people have just said fine, I’ll do it myself, and used the tool CCP left for them.
The orca would not even be an issue if mining/industrial ships were not so completely useless, so helpless and pathetic.
CCP needs to stop with this ‘but industrial’s can’t be real ships’ BS. If ORE ships were properly designed, were capable of dealing with minor issues on their own, but still require proper planning - and proper support for large issues - to do so, but COULD to start, then the orca issue wouldn’t even be on anyone’s mind.
But CCP isn’t addressing any of the core issue. Yet again. They’re bludgeoning an emergent option, derived from bad game design, and people are running out of options for ways to play the game. Completely counter-productive to a sandbox trying to last another decade.
13 Likes
“ME.”
This is actually a pretty reasonable position to take for anyone who’s subscribed. Many omega players are paying for entertainment and the entertainment sold here hinges on the availability of virtual ships and fits.
What’s good for the complainers, isn’t necessarily bad for the game as a whole. I think it’s rather the contrary in this case. It’s just that they won’t check out Steam sales instead of going on “strike”.
The problem with the strikers and other loud voices, is actually CCP’s ultimate save: the complainers are too invested in the game for their own good. They care.
When we take a step back, the whole situation is actually great comedy. CCP and the hardcore players. It’s why Eve-Reddit is still full of ex-players following the news years after they logged in.
3 Likes
Specifically, in the systems, where the busy route coming through an outlying stargate. Where no amount of maneuver would make you any more differently positioned relative to it.