Player agency and October Balance Pass

DSTs and blockade runners are mostly ungankable in highsec unless the pilot is negligent. And for the shipper, courier contracts are virtually foolproof. The only people who lose stuff to gankers in highsec are those who try to get something for nothing.

I’ve had years of fun watching people not be able to kill me with a suicide gank. My mission Mach survived 3 attempts all together and I dodged another with my Epic Arc Nightmare.

I never had a single second of fun being made helpless by ECM. ECM was so terribly broken and outside the box when it came to ewar it wasn’t even funny.

The reaction from the “ECM Dependant” people proves that people will try to justify an advantage any way they can to keep from admitting that it was bad. This happens IRL all the time.

Back to ganking, it’s not an issue. The real conflict between gankers and anti gank types is that the anti gank types are deeply offended by the existence of people who enjoy doing things to so called “defenseless players”. They know they can’t beat the gankers in game (because the gankers don’t give a damn about in game losses and usually gank on alts anyway) so they lobby CCP for changes and have done so for years, invoking “think of the children” style rhetoric.

That lobbying is why I dislike them while at the same time not being a huge fan of ganking or gankers…

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I have to outright disagree with this.
The fact that ganking happens is not an issue, yes. The amount that happens is not an issue yes.
But the WAY that ganking happens, that is an issue.
If the ganker does the maths right, and does their prep right, all the defender pretty much gets is to blink and die.
And it doesn’t matter how careful you are, a ganker can kill you if they want to and in nearly all cases make a profit.
The ‘don’t carry over x value’ is not the threshold at which they don’t make a profit, it’s the level at which they will often bother someone else. And even an unfitted freighter nets them a green killboard even if it’s a theoretical loss of isk. (Of a very small amount).
I would liken being ganked (by someone that knows what they are doing) to very similar to ECM as a game experience. Most of the time it’s just a sit there and find out if they did their maths wrong because you have no more useful input that can be done.

Addressing that way of ganking would actually solve a lot of the complaints, regardless on what the complainer is voicing, because people are complex yet tend to only voice one thing.
Which is why I keep pushing for an increase in the gank timer (into the range of minutes), changing concord to a forced self destruct to avoid spawn lag when doing things like smart bombing, and giving industrials real fittings including meaningful weapons, (but not as good as actual combat ships of the same size), actual fitting, similar slot layouts & capacitor.
This would mean that shooting someone legitly afk would be super easy because you have several minutes so can probably do it with a single ship, but shooting someone at keyboard would be harder and less predictable because their ability to fight back and active tank would impact. (Which would also make glass cannon gank ships more questionable, make a lot more ships capable of ganking, and make other skills more important for gankers also)
Yes you could overkill like present, but well, can’t prevent dramatic overkill. But you can make the time spent ganking a more interesting interaction for both sides. While reducing the maths & just in case stress exercise to some degree.

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If the “defender” does the math right he will not end up in the situation in the first place.

You are focusing on the wrong moment A gank is not just the moment the fleet descends on you to give off the killing blow. The real “fight” is fought long before that and it is the fault of the victim if he is so oblivious to think people are not out there to get him and just YOLOs 50bil into Uedama on ap.

And there is simply no way to change this even by extending the time of the fight as everything that you throw in the way of the ganker can be accounted for and they will still do the math. All this will do in the end is probably make it more expensive for the ganker again.

Ganking is fine. People have multiple options to mine and haul without even the risk of losing something. And the fact that we see ever bigger and fatter whales getting killed doesn’t tell us that the pond is overfished, on the contrary it seems it’s so save no one cares to “do the math” on the hauler side of things.

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It absolutely does.

The idea that the gankee is powerless is wrong. Most give their advantages away and if they didn’t, they’d be fine, just like the pilots that do fly prepared.

No, I’m focusing on the right time.
The time where the actual interaction between players happens. We want that time to be interesting, & to be engaging for both sides. Player engagement is one of the big retainers.

The fact that there are plenty of empty freighter kills, while I’m not denying far fewer than yolo freighters and I’m not aiming to change the fact that yolo kills happen, says it’s not just about ‘do the maths right and you are 100% safe’. It’s about ‘Does the ganker choose you today’. You can influence this choice in a number of ways, but you can’t stop the ganker if they do, and it’s not an engaging time if they do either.

It absolutely is. If you die you didn’t do the math right.

I think you don’t fully understand how this game works but want to make suggestions for changes anyway…

It is your fault that I mugged you. Shouldn’t have woke up in the morning.
It is your fault that I carjacked you. Shouldn’t have bought that car.
It is your fault that I ##$~@# you. Shouldn’t have dressed like that.

Cool story as usual @Ima_Wreckyou.
It is everyone elses fault except the guys holding the guns.

We are still talking about a computer game right?

And yes in a computer game it’s your fault if you let your guard down. It’s part of the game to protect your stuff.

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ECM is not pew pew. Must have pew pew.
Next. Light sabers.
HS ganking is the usual boys-in-gangs stuff that crops up in every game. Probably one of the reasons everyone goes to the safety of null zergvilles, or becomes a ganker. HS ganking provides an emotional torture that might keep some people playing; an any emotion is better than no emotion type thing. But it looks to me that games which are level battlefields tend to become extremely popular, which was good to see in the recent tournament. I guess CCP could test how popular ganking is by having a ganking tournament.

Yep.
It is not someones fault that they are ganked in something you deem a target. It is the person/people that gank them.

Just tell it how it is.
Ganking is valid gameplay. Don’t water it down with idiotic justifications to evade guilt or fault.

If you lose at chess it is the fault of the player that beat you?

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How many times did you have to use the currency of the chess game to buy new chess pieces because you lost? Do you know how to even play chess? The person that beats you doesn’t get to keep the pieces.

All activities that can be done on a computer are valid?
My original post can stand if I changing Mugging to identity theft?

If you lose at online poker it is the fault of the player that beat you right?

Ignoring my first reply because i am right so trying to go another way?

You made the point that it is not the same because you lose stuff in EVE and in chess you don’t. Obviously you couldn’t figure out on your own that there are multiple other game that do have cash involved other than EVE so I helped you by picking the first that came to mind.

So again: If you lose at online poker is it the fault of the other player?

And then you ignored my questions.

I was unaware that EVE had a tabletop game hundreds of years ago.
You know…like chess.
Or decades ago.
Like poker.

Why is it different if it is another kind of game. It’s still a game and if you lose it is your fault and not the fault of the player that bested you

So which of those games that you mentioned that are real life games and existed long before computers have anything to do with ganking in EVE?

We can use any game?
https://www.childrensbulletins.com/sunday-school-games-about-giving.aspx

Again, EVE is a game, like Poker or Magic or Chess or whatever offline or online, hardware or software game you play, in games if you lose it is not the fault of the other player. Maybe you where just unlucky and some games have some serious RNG, but there is one constant: If you lose it is not the fault of the other player

If you can’t understand that you will only hurt yourself.

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