“The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.”
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The issue at hand is… Cargo Scanners are being used to Scan for Cargo.
Working as intended.
/thread
Code is functional. Process is flawed. Suggest for fix to flawed process scares you. We know. HTFU.
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No, the process is working as intended. Scanning another ship’s contents is harmless. Concord and NPC Navy do it all the time. When you enter a system through a Gate, you immediately get a notice of being Fined for having illegal materials (like Slaves or Drugs) in cargo.
Your problem isn’t being scanned. Your problem is being Ganked so they can steal what they saw you had.
The issue is Ganking, not Scanning. And the solution is to drastically increase the amount of Sec Status lost from Ganking. That way they will become Criminal faster, and then we can shoot them anywhere and anytime. No need to Flag someone for Scanning if they’re already -10.
I’m sorry, when did YOU become Concord or the NPC Navy? Did you get authorization to do random searches from their government? No? Yes? When and how.
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Nope, I’m just a space mercenary… Just like you. And since we’re all a bunch of guns for hire, nobody gives a hairy ■■■■ what we do to each other, unless we start getting blood on the carpet. At which point mom and dad come storming in and ground anyone within arm’s reach.
At zero point in time is anyone prevented from undocking. Concord does not have a jail cell. Nobody is grounded.
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There are a lot of comparisons being thrown about which mostly rely on the principles of the real world. I, too, appreciate a game that makes logical sense that is consistent with the real world, except where ‘sense’ comes at the expense of gameplay.
The heart of the issue, and what determines if this change makes good sense or not, is whether this increases player agency (the ability to shape one’s own fate through choice), and engagement.
I am under the impression that the total effect of this change on scanners would be relatively slight from what I’ve read in the topic. Lazy, untanked scouts are already vulnerable to being ganked themselves, if anyone is willing to do so. Several ways to mitigate the risk to the scout have already been proposed, and I did not read arguments claiming they were not plausible.
I do not doubt that cargo scanning is likely the precursor to an attack, but that does not make it an attack in itself and both sides of the conflict can use scanners to gather intel on their foes before deciding whether to commit to an actual attack. Bumping Machariels are just as vulnerable to being passively scanned for sweet loot and fitting details as freighters.
I am still of the mind that scanning is meant as a means to apply the risk/reward principle to the general public. The more expensive your fit and cargo, the more likely a scanner is to put the word out on you. This presents a very human decision to make which can’t be calculated. At what point does your value become a hazard? Only your opponent knows for sure, but you can make an educated guess as to what you can get away with.
I enjoy that guessing game, and I’d not be happy to give it up for some mystery force that has not yet materialized who may or may not be motivated to shoot inexpensive scouting ships, in the off chance those scouts are unable to escape.
I do see what this idea is trying to achieve, and I like the goal of bringing players into direct conflict. I do not believe, though, this will achieve that. I think there would be less conflict, or that meaningful conflict would be shifted downwards to throwaway engagements. I also feel that my ability to shape my fate through choice would be diminished, as my enemy would be less aware of the choices I made to punish me for making bad ones.
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So this is what shoveling looks like… I guess 250+ posts shows that people are passionate about the subject at least… 
This is a very interesting observation. A compromise has been suggested in this topic that active cargo scanning should give a suspect flag, but passive cargo scanning should not. However, passive cargo scanning should take longer to scan, giving the user a choice of whether to do a risky quick scan, or the safer passive scan.
In the interest of possibly implementing such a system, I would think passive cargo scanning shouldn’t give any indication to the target that they are being scanned.
Here’s how you make the floating pinatas scan / gank victims happy in the long run…
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Do nothing that this whole thread calls for. Leave scanners alone.
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Increase the Sec Status hit for Ganking.
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… there is no #3
Scanning is perfectly fine. Scanning is not the problem. The problem is getting shot after having been scanned. And the problem is the same guys doing the shooting every single day.
We all know it’s risky to undock from Jita or Amarr or someplace, if you see a pack of Tornadoes sitting outside. And it’s always the same folks sitting in them. And yet, for some reason, they aren’t -10 and constantly being filled full of holes themselves. It’s b/c the Sec hit is meaningless. Clearly they don’t feel deterred by the loss, because they’re right back out there 15 min later when their Flag runs up.
So… make it hurt. Give them -0.5 Sec every time they pop a Hauler. Or better yet, give them -(System Sec) every time. If they pop Haulers in 0.5, then they lose 0.5. And if they pop Haulers in the 1.0 hubs, then they lose 1.0 each time. That means the best boys and girls in the universe can afford to Gank someone 20 times outside Jita before they’re the most hated boys and girls. And when this Alt is toast, it’ll take them that much longer to train up a new Alt to sit in a Tornado and pull the trigger.
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They’ll have already trained up another character to take it’s place. Incidentally the gankers won’t use a Tornado. They use a
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Catalyst
Which can be trained into in a few hours at worst.
True, but you need a lot more Catalysts on grid to pull off any decent Ganks, compared to the single Tornado sitting outside a hub station. And a lot more Catalyst pilots turning Outlaw and perma-flashy after a few ganks, means a lot more turn over for Alts. In the end, a lot more wasted time for Gankers to continue their self-amusing hobby. And a lot more satisfaction for the loot balloons victims knowing that they can’t just keep doing it all day every day.
I still think increasing the Sec loss is the way to go. It has nothing to do with Scanning folks, and everything to do with shooting them.
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You seem to think that would change. I’m sorry you don’t know how fast it is to make a gank Catalyst pilot.
I get that. But how many Catalyst pilots will you have to keep remaking and remaking in order to keep hitting the bigger targets? A single pilot is easy to replace, but if you’re hitting targets that need a dozen Catalysts to pop, that’s a dozen pilots you have to replace every 2-5 ganks b/c they went from 0 Sec to -2 or -5 and became perma-flashy.
And I vaguely recall hearing something about punishment for repeatedly scrapping Alts just b/c their Sec status is low?
- Then someone makes another account while the first one biomasses or moves to an area where they can farm security standing up while waiting for another juicy target to appear to gank.
Yep. I never said it was completely foolproof. But it does waste a lot of the ganker’s time, having to go rebuild Sec status or go make entirely new accounts every few days. And hopefully CCP will pick up on the fact that the same person is filling their databases with useless accounts and do something about it.
At least it would be something productive, instead of the current system of allowing them to gank all day long with no repercussions other than a 15 min time out.
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If I really wanted to end ganking I would change concord to warp disrupt and web pods.
Or drop their Sec status faster, and then any bystander can Pod them. =)
A triple webbed warp scrambled pod moving at maybe 2 digit speed is a pretty easy target to be podded.
After clicking the scan cargo button, “this will cause you to go suspect! do you wish to continue?”.
For example the alert that stops you from going into low sec.
Anything is possible in pixels.
Really, i don’t think you have done anything “illegal” or you is your traffic light permanently set to red.
you know, the button that tells you, “you are about to blow up someone in highsec”!