The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out


(Proteus Onzo) #3854

That you can be aggresses is not a death penalty.

Suspect flag does not incur a death penalty.
Criminal flag does incur a death penalty, as administered by CONCORD.

Think before you post next time.

(Arrendis) #3855

Criminal flags incur a mandatory death penalty.
Suspect flags are punishable by death—lesser punishments are also available.

Does it hurt to be wrong that often?

(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #3856

I kind of understand where Salvos is coming from on this, the only reason to scan is if you want to know if someone is worth killing.

However, I’m pretty sure it stops a lot of people who don’t overload and do tank from being ganked. I’m guessing scanners more often decide not to gank based on the result.

(Geo Eclipse Oksaras) #3857

I have one and I love it.
I hate when I come up on people that have a Radar Detector Detector.

(Jonah Gravenstein) #3858

Ta, works nicely with a one minor change to your instructions.

// @include*

instead of // @match.

(kosmicheski) #3859

Where do I vote for CSM dismissal.
Totally useless mechanics. We all see what the game has turned into.
Null sec is safer then High Sec :slight_smile:
New pilots go directly in to capitals, why waist time on useless ship classes.
Sov wars ?? Where ??
Big fights? no lag fests. Oh! sorry we call it TiDi :slight_smile:
How to fix Lag?.. well make multiple fights in multiple locations… NO! Too difficult! Must have every one and there moms in one system.

(Brisc Rubal) #3860

You don’t.

No, it isn’t.

We kill those guys first, because they don’t know how to fly their ships.

Just had a big one in the north, next up is Geminate from the looks of it.

TiDi is not lag. TiDi is what was introduced to fight lag. Folks can complain about TiDi but they apparently don’t remember what it was like back in the bad old days when lag and black screens happened anytime you got more than 1k people in a system. TiDi makes big fights possible.

It’s not too difficult, it’s just not how people play the game. For the big fights, everybody wants to be there, from the combatants to the tourists. It’s just the nature of a big spectacle.

Plus we like having their moms in system. Helps pass the time in TiDi.

(zen-vexor01 LSG) #3861

You can try but as CSM member you can not justify CSM existence, ordinary players do not want this kind of CMS that does not serve anything.
You part of big corp metagame and just lost it.

(Iowa Banshee) #3862

November 2018
Delve 12,000 ship losses
The forge 20,000 ship losses

Yes, it is

(Mina Sebiestar) #3863

Please tell me this is not true.

(Brisc Rubal) #3864

I don’t have to justify it’s existence. CCP wants the CSM, so they get the CSM. And given that 30k+ accounts still vote for the CSM in each election, I think it’s a stretch to say “ordinary players don’t want this.”

I’m not part of any metagame. I’m just a line member.

(Brisc Rubal) #3865

It’s only true if you think that Delve and the Forge have the same number of players - they don’t. The Forge has a much larger population than Delve, so it’s going to have more ship deaths. And if you think Delve is safe, go compare the numbers for Catch to The Forge.

(Iowa Banshee) #3866

In high sec its war dec’s and ganks only, you can kill anyone in null so if you have enemies around they should have more chances to enguage . Mostly on the borders (keeping the homelands safe)

Anyway look at these stats

Look at all those NPC ratting kills in Delve over the last 24hours
A quarter of a million NPC’s killed - losses negligible - How safe it must be to rat in null?

EDIT - as for population - how may players does it take to kill over 1/4 million rats in 24 hours

(kosmicheski) #3867

Very well argument answers, thank you for quoting me.

Let me try to do the same on small arguments you posted.

After Geminate what? Are we going from region to region ? Since when CSM stands for “we decide when and where you are allowed to have a conflicts” ?
Maybe we have to wait for the next meeting to see where the next big fight / betrayal will be.

Oh really? Heard that 100 time already. If the Lag is the same for everyone, then it is not a lag but a TiDi. When the server does not workout the requests, because they stay too long in the queue and people are randomly disconnected, victory is achieved!
Good job on inventing new term for lag and distribute it to everyone equally like a good communists…

How about ? MAKE MORE TIMERS! By making the game more dynamic? By maybe making the nulls less SAFE!
Oh wait, it is not the right time… Groups that want / can do it are just not in the meta (invited to the CSM meeting)

DISBAND! Useless representation of what the players want!

(Brisc Rubal) #3868

You’ve obviously never been super ratting before.

(Brisc Rubal) #3869

It doesn’t. Players decide where the conflicts are and what they’re over. We don’t have any control over that, and we never have. Your question of “Sov Wars?? Where??” seemed to indicate that you didn’t think anybody was fighting. That’s obviously not true.

Then maybe the 101st time it will sink in.

That’s not what TiDi is or how lag works. I do appreciate the communist reference, though. That was cute.

This doesn’t make any sense, and I’m assuming it’s a language barrier. In the end, the players decide what they want to fight over. Not the CSM. We don’t have any control over what your alliance leaders decide they want to do in the game, or where they want to take space.

(Iowa Banshee) #3870

Lets see - Angel Sanctum spawns 40 to 50 rats with a chance of a Dread say 45 rats

I thought you said not everyone was in supers - so call it 3/4 are using Marauders

Anyway - Sanctums have 40-50 rats +/- Dread spawn
So - using the 56K NPC deaths in an average system in Delve - ( S-6HHN) has about 2300 SITES run in a 24 period that’s about 98 an hour - A Golem can kick out 1100 dps that’s one site every 20 mins, a super 20% higher

That averages out at about 6-8 people running sites uninterrupted TWENTY FOUR SEVEN in ONE system

Tell me again how unsafe it is in Null Sov space

EDIT: To put it another way -
In your Super - How many sites do you do in an hour?
Sanctum has 50 rats, Haven 70 - How many rats did you kill in that hour?

Then divide 56,000 by that to get the man hours (Because someone is killing those rats)

(Brisc Rubal) #3871

It depends on the area, just like anywhere else. Try to super rat in Catch or Geminate right now. Delve is not all of nullsec.

I don’t believe many people are running anoms in Marauders. That’s a high sec mission running ship. Generally speaking its:

Titans - rock havens
Supers - havens and sanctums
Carriers - havens and hubs
Rattlesnakes - havens and hubs
CNR/Ravens - lower level stuff
Gila/VNI - lower level stuff.

That’s mostly your ratting. You can generally run a sanctum in 5-7 minutes in a super. I just tested it, and I did a ring sanctum in 7 minutes.

The number of rats is:

wave 1 - 10
wave 2 - 6
wave 3 - 7
wave 4 - 7
wave 5 - 13

So that’s 43 rats per ring sanctum (and station sanctums are way more).

43 rats every 7 minutes is about 366 rats an hour. 20 guys is 7320. 10 hours - that’s 73,200. That’s 20 guys average ratting in one system for 10 hours. That’s not exactly insane.

And you just cost me an Ametat II typing this up while I was in space, lol.

(Iowa Banshee) #3872

Are you saying that you have 20 supers in that system ?
(7 mins to do a sanctum - that’s 21 mins including a station spawn)

So given that rat kills range from 5000 to 90,000 in the 80 systems in delve and
Assuming split shifts whats that - 400 supers ratting without interference at any one time

You do lose 1 out of the 400(ish) a day but given the income generated
Are you sure it’s "unsafe"

(Brisc Rubal) #3873

I’m saying that you can have a lot of people ratting in a single system and generate the numbers you were looking at. Maybe not 20 supers, but a handful, coupled with other folks ratting makes it easy to hit those numbers.

Not every system is full of ratters, as you can easily tell from the Dotlan numbers.

And, again, you’re talking about Delve - the safest of nullsec - and ignore the fact that the rest of nullsec isn’t nearly as profitable or nearly as safe.

The bottom line is that an area of space where nobody can attack you without 100% certainty of getting destroyed is always going to be safer than an area where that’s not true. Highsec will always be safer than null.