The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out

The Meeting Minutes from the CSM summit which took place in early September are out. Please check out this dev blog for information about the summit, and a link to download the minutes.

If you have any question about the contents of the summit or the CSM project, don’t be a stranger!


Don’t believe him! He lies! The real minutes are here: ! Read them before the hit squad gets me!


wtf dude

You got to that part already??


They also show that the low activity continues after the war ends. Brisc Rubal noted that the numbers here were so stark, it would justify immediately removing war decs as a mechanic and promising a fix after the fact.

Funny how Brisc is shocked about that and demands immediate removal of wars, but when ISK generation spiked due to capital changes without thought for consequences as well as server issues almost every time a large number of them are involved, he’s just fine leaving the ships as is.


I approve of both sets of minutes, noting that @Steve_Ronuken should have also provided CSM Temps along with the CSM Minutes so that preparations can be made.

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Okay, I loled.

You missed the part where I asked Larrikin if bounties were sustainable and he said no. This is why I’m in favor of nerfing bounties. As for the rest, you clearly didn’t read anything past this and you’re still putting words in my mouth.

CCP Larrikin pulls up activity data for players of corporations that have wars declared against them and it shows considerable activity drops in all activities during the war. They also show that the low activity continues after the war ends. Brisc Rubal noted that the numbers here were so stark, it would justify immediately removing war decs as a mechanic and promising a fix after the fact. The CSM in general were surprised at how stark the numbers were and noted it was clear this mechanic was having a significant impact on player recruitment and retention.

Even without watching that data some people knew how bad it is, they actually played thru it. :joy:

Dont know what CCP was doing all those years…


Fix the war system its broken.

Alliances like PIRAT are war deccing 100+ Alliances (even Eve UNI) to create a pool of helpless targets. Then they sit on the Jita Gates with 5 Neutral Guardians and jump on a single retriever.

Its broken fix it.


Not sustainable? Yeah, because of supers because CCP didn’t think of that. Like always.
Nerfing bounties how? Lowering them hurts people not using supers or titans more than anything else. Putting them in ESS? So that super cap umbrellas have even more advantages?

Innominate adds that the old days of locking off a constellation with a bunch of bubbles is not as much of a thing as it was …

Yes, because of ceptors being able to go past them. Without combat ceptors being a threat any longer, that will come back and be even worse than before. But the GSM is massively in favor of that.

Combined, this makes it impossible for any ship to apply targeted DPS and thus renders these ships susceptible only to AOE damage.

God, since Jintaan joined CFC even he has lost his mind. Claws are not just susceptible to AOE defenses. They are susceptible to proper defensive efforts. Goes to show how much people lie to CCP to just press their agenda. Example: That guy tanked our 20 ceptors yesterday and we could not kill him as long as his tank lasted. With a bit of preparation, ceptors are weak. Saying otherwise is lying.


That’s for them to figure out. But the bottom line is the amount of ratting isk entering the game is unsustainable. It’s off the charts.


This is, of course, because the last war change (removing watchlisting) forced all highsec wardec organisations to merge, and the AWOX changes to friendly fire caused all of the people doing that to also join the larger wardec groupings.

Wars are the only way that predatory corporations in highsec - the scum that recruit new people to tax them and offer no training, no content in exchange - can be dealt with.

Those predatory corps are the ones that grief their members by saying ‘don’t log on’. Fighting back intelligently in cheap T1 ships works.


Yes, on that I fully agree with you. But not the bounty values are the issue. The fact that CCP allowed supers and titans to be so ridiculously efficient farming the anomalies paired with the unchecked focus on capital proliferation without any thought for consequences made this an issue.

CCP Fozzie asks about reducing the cycle to one minute and that has some discussions.

That’s a good suggestion.


CCP Fozzie goes on to clarify that the metrics for the current system clearly show that it’s in a state that CCP is not happy with. The current system is extremely skewed in the favor of aggressors. There is also the fact that people involved in wars will simply not play whilst the war is ongoing. They also want to see a scenario where the defenders who may not normally be interested in wars would engage in them as they see a clear scenario where they can get a victory condition and end it.

Good luck. People who don’t want to fight won’t fight. If wardec mechanics favor aggressors, then the people who don’t want to fight are automatically disincentivized, as they’ll always be the defenders. The formula’s pretty simple: wars where you’re forcing someone to fight who doesn’t want to have to be balanced toward defense. Wars in parts of the game where everyone acknowledges ‘I’m here, so I’m willing to fight’ should be balanced toward the attacker.

You know, basically exactly the opposite of how it is now. Right now, high-sec wars (war decs) are balanced toward attackers. Low/Null wars heavily favor defenders due to tether mechanics, asset safety, etc.


Interesting (yet not surprising) how often supers and titans are being mentioned in these minutes as causes for issues and poor gameplay experience. :thinking:

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Wardeccing coalitions who each have their own turf / trade hub have been nuking every single corp that tried to recruit, build or grow above 10 people for the last 5 years and CCP are only now beginning to talk about it.

It’s so typical of CCP, too little too late. You ain’t getting those subs back and now that numbers are what they are they’re looking to rectify high sec, well you should probably have looked into that 4 years ago.

Edit: btw these forums suck, you could not have made them any worse


I want to see lots of Titans and supers blowing up.


No thats simply not true. It doesnt have anything to do with the removal of the watchlist. As former long time high sec “merc” i have much more Information about it.

Lets také as example PIRAT their biggest “client” omega and friends medialabs who owns the half of the high sec pocos (he pays them to defend his pocos) throws so much isk on them they can easily pay the war fees for 100+ wars. They only reason why they dec that many corps is because of the “content” for their members. All they have to do is wait around the jita gates. If they wouldnt dec that much alliances nobody would be interessted to hunt down a specific target.


They could be day-glo orange with neon green text.