It can easily be done with the right setup, with multiple accounts.
Yes, it’s been that way since the start.
Yeah. I’m not gonna quote how much I make off of it, but it’s way north of 1b per month per account after taxes.
I don’t know what the image above is about? I got a notice of 8 posts here, in response to them all; WTF?
@Elathy_Maricadie and @Srima_Darkstar I know all about factories, but I am in this to maxumize the isk. You are spending it on factories, import/fees, and I only farm raw and sell raw. Take a look at EVE PI TOOL and you can see how much you lost. I fully understand and support your game play method, assuming you don’t brag about your profits, you do you.
@Syzygium I have increase my cycles to 5 days now. I only need to make sure there is no overstock on launchpad. Launchpads hold 2 million units and I have 2 launchpads on each of my 6 planets. I visit my planets on every 5th day (6 times a month) then I decide on that day where to sell my raw or just store it at dock.
Going to low or null isn’t much of a solution, then you are needing someone else to haul it or hope it sells in that region of space. I am set up less than 6 jumps off Jita.
I am making about 1.2 billion isk selling raw in the markets.
I ran 2 omega accounts, but I dropped to 1 because of my gaming budget. Recently a person who read my post, saw I was struggling with finance and offerred a better option for my rent. I am currently moving out of the roach motel and into deluxe accommodations. The PI won’t pay for multiple accounts, otherwise everone would just use PI to plex their accounts. At best you are looking at 50% off per month. I don’t think I will be picking up another omega account and the one I do have is marginal. I already pay for Ubisoft+ which allows me to play all the games on there. This is only one game and even buying omega at discount 6 months or yearly, pales by comparison to what Ubisoft offers.
In short, I might be PI farming next month or I might not.
It’s a mockup of an “expanded” pop-up menu that shows when you RMB click on other’s Capsuleer Command Center (the pin visible at upper left corner of the menu panel)
The mockup shows a hypothetical option - Contract Vanguards - to issue contracts to EVE Vanguard players, or Warclones, and “do stuff” to other Capsuleer Planetary Industry.
Warclones are as immortal as Capsuleers are but running with guns on the surface of planets. …or inside structures and ships in the future.
EVE Vanguard is an incoming EVE FPS, going live this November. Most probably on the same day that EVE Online winter expansion launches.
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my reply was to @Elathy_Maricadie and his PI setup, just saying. He is showing a picture of 11 Factories, which each can use 6000 raw mats per hour, requiring an input of 66000/hour over the total runtime of the extraction cycle to use them efficiently. Which is basically unachievable in HS unless you use cycles of less then a day.
I have some of the best/most dense planets available in a wormhole system, which I can use almost totally on my own and I roughly get 50.000/hr when farming the best resource on them (which is on a densitiy level of 100%) over a freshly spawned hotspot and an extraction cycle of 3 days. There is simply no way you can use 11 factories in a 5 day cycle in HS, especially if you cannot relocate your extrator every few days to always mine at a hotspot. It’s mathematically impossible.
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I used the EVE PI TOOL to run this simulation as an example;
Up at the top there, you see there is 1.2 billion isk up there at the top in raw mats. I entered the export fee at 12% ( 150.8 million isk ) to pull it off planet. So now I walk away with 1.1 billion isk.
The other players who spend more time processing it won’t see any profit until P2, and that is only 283 million isk. Assuming all your factories are 12% import / export fees, by the time you get to P4, you walk away with 137.3 million isk. That is less than what you would have made selling at P2.
If you are not into doing this for the isk, and you are building something else, then you would be further ahead to sell the raw for 1.1 billion and buy the P4 mats. This seem like you are feeding a cow at a cost of 500 per month and getting only a few gallons of milk worth 50. When I point this out, every says, yes but I use the milk to make ice cream for free. o.O
How large is the trade volume of raw materials?
Or in other words, how many people even waste their time exporting and importing P0 instead of P1?
Your tool doesn’t account for that, and the incredible price you see for the P0 which I suspect is caused by incidental sales of very small amounts of leftover goods would very quickly drop when you fully produce P0 and thereby saturate the market, because it’s a pain to move stuff with such a low ISK value per volume, and also anyone with an extraction planet can afford to also place some basic factories to at least turn it into P1.
Or keep producing P0, that too is an option.
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First, it is not “my tool” no more than EVE Tycoon is my tool.
For volume, we could use EVE Tycoon. I don’t always ship product upon harvest to Jita nor do I sell it as soon as it reaches Jita. I see that the biologicals sell better but this is only because they take longer time to harvest. Sometimes it is better to harvest the high planetary volume and make sure the launchpad isn’t overstocked in the 5 day time span. Since my home world is the system I am currently farming it means my farmer need to pod death in dock or take a speedy trip home to off load mats.
Next, someone is buying the P0 mats or I would not be making isk at all. Which I assume someone is importing them to their factory worlds. I would never do that myself. I have shown you, 1 billion isk in P0 is a significant loss to import and turn into P1. If I were doing it for factories, and not the isk, I would buy P1 and run it up to P4 instead. That would be faster and less costly.
I started PI, when I watched the FC golden child video about making hundreds of millions of isk. Loru was claiming 400 million per month. It didn’t take me long to work the math on this that P0 raw is more isk. If this were not a game, it would make no sense to sell items in a market for less than the cost of the raw. Players look at P0 as “free”, I made it for free, then they overlook the weird market buyers who are not willing to wait.
If I stockpile my items at dock, I have found it takes me about 3 days at 3 to 4 hours per day to haul the mess to market from a distance greater than 10 jumps. This is why I relocated my farms closer to Jita and Amarr. I focus each farmer on only 1 system, all their items are in one station. If I see those items are selling very high further away, I contract a hauler. Selling within 1 jump of Jita avoids those people ganking Jita 4.4. I don’t seem to have that issue in Amarr.
In the end, I look at my earnings from PI using the graph and I average over 1 billion every 30 days adding all 3 characters on the one account. Something I improved upon since my May 28th posting in this thread, I don’t even chase hotspots, I seldom move the extractor based only on what I am harvesting and what is available on the planet.
Maybe someday players will stop paying for P0 and I will be out of business. Something tells me, it is not going to happen. Today I checked on all my farms, stopped and started the extractors, and it looks like I am back to other activities for 5 days.
Yea, this high cost (or effort) of hauling is why people generally don’t do P0.
I do P2 extraction planets for similar profits and haul for like an hour every three weeks or so.
Your simulation makes a few surprising assumptions.
The first assumption seems to be that import tax is paid to produce P1.
Generally I expect people to produce P1 on the same planet they extract P0, so there should be no import tax for P1 if you want to make a fair comparison with P0.
Next, your simulation assumes import costs at every step, even though you could easily do a P3 factory planet with P1 input materials and skip the P2 import and export fees.
Lastly those fees of 12% seem incredibly high.
Maybe for you doing higher tier factory planets isn’t profitable but others may have access to factory planets with fees as low as 2%.
Maybe I misinterpreted something, but I’d like to see how your P1 profits would look like versus P0 if you did P1 on an extraction planet instead of importing P0 to a factory planet.
I won’t punch in the import / export fees, we will avoid the sales tax and broker fees too. I thought we was talking HS planets, and the lowest I have seen is 12%. However let’s just focus on production. This is the build from the same site to build 840 broadcast nodes.
I picked the P4 item with the most profit. 516 million isk to my selling 1.1 billion isk. Maybe you question the tool? Let’s use EVE Tycoon.
Selling 840 in Jita is 1,960,000 x 840 = 1,646,400,000
1,646,400,000 - 1,126,944,000 = 519,456,000
Every tutorial I have seen recommends building “factory planets” separate from the harvesting. The EVE PI TOOL calculates for factory builds, but I don’t build factories. If you build factories on the same planet it will reduce your production rate. If you tear down your farms, to build factories, you will be in need of planetary storage. I stick with 2 extractors and 2 launchpads per planet.
I did some comparison.
My P2 extraction planets with 2 lines of basic factories and 2 advanced factories producing 10 Consumer Electronics an hour at 10k ISK each give me about 100k ISK per hour if I ignore the one-time export taxes.
This is with 6 heads for each of my extractors pulling about 12k units per hour on average to fuel both their basic factories.
If I extrapolate this to the 20 heads you could fit on a P0 extraction planet with two launchpads and no factories, I’d get 40k units per hour on average.
(Exact numbers may change depending on the planet, but I’ll take the same number per head between the two planets for a fair comparison.)
This would be for example 40k units of heavy metals. At 3 ISK per unit this gives me 120k ISK per hour if I ignore the same one-time export taxes.
In this comparison P0 production looks slightly better than my P2 extraction planet! That looks promising!
However, let’s compare volumes, or in other word effort.
P0 extraction planet
At 40k units of P0 per hour you’re producing 200m3 of PI an hour. With 6 planets that’s 1200m3, which fills a Squall in 2 days, which you then need to fly to the market to earn 40 million ISK.
P2 extraction planet
At 10 units per hour I’m producing 7.5m3 of PI an hour. With 6 planets that’s 45m3, which fills a Squall in 2 months, which I then fly to the market for 900 million ISK.
Considering that most of the time spend on PI is to haul stuff around, you’re doing 30 times the effort to earn a little more ISK by flying full hauler loads of spare cash (40 million ISK) around.
I on the other hand can spend 29 out of 30 of those hauling trips you do doing other activities (like ratting at around 300m/h), which even at much worse income rates more than makes up for the tiny bit of profit I lost compared to producing P0.
Your time also is worth ISK.
By making P0 you’re spending 30 times more effort for a payout that’s not even that much more than if someone makes P2.
Now I haven’t done the math on P1 planets, but my educated guess is that it’s somewhere in between the effort of P2 and P0, and still a lot more reasonable than P0.
There are countless Eve “industrial” players whose actual business, whether they realize it or not, is a hauling operation with themselves as their only customer, and the whole thing falls apart once you value the hauling like Red Frog was doing it.
I haven’t looked at this guy’s numbers because the topic is too silly to take seriously but I can’t imagine it’s pretty from a logistics perspective.
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This.
Any time someone tells you his business concept is extracting P0 from Highsec planets because with the import/export fees for the higher tiers he would make less profits and low/null/wh would be too much hauling effort, you can instantly stop discussing. It’s a pure waste of time.
The whole business plan falls apart once you give the hauling time an adequate value. It’s the same story like people claiming "but I can undercut the market if I mine my own minerals, because then they are free!!!
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Not sure if my numbers help, but here is my (although incomplete) data I’m using and shows potentiel monthly profits (if running at 100% efficiency).
Formula for calculating Est. Profit is as follows:
That column on the right for P2 seems strange to me.
For many goods you don’t have a market value filled in, but you do know the tax rates and the estimated monthly output (even if the latter is sometimes not visible, it’s a constant), yet the estimated profit for those goods is positive.
I would expect it to be negative.
This same positive number appears to also be added to the rows which do have full data, according to the last significant numbers.
Edit: I see you fixed it already as I was typing this. 
Yea, I’ve noticed that too. It should be updated now. 
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I don’t bother with spread sheets Malcoy. I understand what you are saying, but here is what I will explain to you; those players not cashing out of the raw materials are looking at making a total of 1.646 billion ISK. I know it takes longer because of the factory planets. You are making 1.127 billion ISK quick and dirty. You don’t build 3 to 5 factory planets and harvest 1 or 2 extraction planets. Your set up is to churn out all extraction planets.
What you are overlooking is once production starts up and continues without downtime on those factories, then they continue to profit. I am currently not doing my PI, I have been running alpha for a while and I also might be too busy in real life to worry about some virtual currency. Other players with nothing better to do, will keep logging in daily, just to get their PI, and fret about this game.
When or if I pick up my omega again, I will need to restart the extractors and factories. I hope you enjoy the game. I am finding it cumbersome of late and thinking about cashing out. It isn’t just one thing I can put my finger on. No one hangs in one game for very long, unless they have issues. Oh and no, you cannot have my stuff.
o7
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I read up on the history of PI farming, still being relative new here. This system was introduced in summer of 2010. Sixteen years old and only received some UI changes in 2018. Was suppose to be part of something called EVE-DUST 514. Which failed and was shutdown after 4 month online.
I see they are busy breaking the game elsewhere, I’m not complaining about this area of the game. Instead I am here to show others what I do farming PI and how my farms work the best for me and how I play the game.
A lot of tutorials will show you wanting to crowd your extraction head together to maximize production. At post number one, I showed you 2 patterns to clump your heads. Here is one to consider.
This Split is good for 2 or more areas to grab more production values.
I don’t look at the head values on the left of this screen. When placing heads I look at the Total on the right to increase.
This farm is making 2.2 million, good to leave it finish, stop and restart later.
I’m not sure it’s fair to say Dust 514 failed, it worked fine and was fun, but it was made for the PS3 and was never upgraded/released for the PS4 so it tanked and servers were shut down.