Barges near obsolete?


(Rin Vocaloid2) #61

I know what it’s like to have to look for a new chew toy. I have a Husky (red furred).


(Lana Rotanique) #62

Just get her a tree limb to chew on. Or an elephant femur.


(rj skeet) #63

Well isn’t the point op was making was that people will choose the easiest option and the easiest option for mining is going afk for the longest time? The orca has a great buffer passive tank that aids in its afk mining and honestly that should be replaced with bonuses for an active tank with less ehp. This would give people the option of still going afk with a still rather large buffer tank or be able to be super defensive with a wicked active tank( think like the cyclone) this would effectively put it online with the rorq and would make it a little more dangerous to fly afk.


(Sasha Viderzei) #64

I agree with you. With the recent tweaks done to the Rorqual to put him back in its place of SUPPORT ship, it would be good to see the Orca follow its bigger brother changes. An Orca shouldn’t be the endgame of highsec mining, it should be a support ship here to bring a mobile refitting place and also provide the well needed boosts to mining yield (and shield bursts).


(Lord Kalus) #65

I could get behind nerfing the tank on orcas for say 50% more ore hold space. In addition to those other active tank things too, of course. If it’s purpose is to be solely a fleet booster it will need extra room to provide storage while filling that role. Probably some buffs to it’s boosts too, to offset the nerfing.


(Naari Naarian) #66

I believe mining needs to be reworked, but not much is required to stop afking, we could for example condense all asteroids into a single type (Asteroid) and make people scan around for the right stuff to mine it. I would advocate that mining should be fast, maybe 15-30 second to fill the hold but require some sort of mini game.

I like the Expedition ships, and would advocate for another line of them in the destroyer hull size.I would also advocate that all expedition ships are cloak warp-able (including endurance),

As far as the barges are concerned i’d like to see all of them merged into one barge, with the benefits of all, IE the tank of proc, with hold and rate of other barges. the same for tech 2.

Lastly, i’d like to see rorqs in high sec, but mining at lower rates.

I think its time we start talking about a potential change to eve that is security specific, like “-30% mining rate while in high sec, -20% in low sec etc”.


(Sasha Viderzei) #67

No. The only XL ships you’ll see in highsec are Freighters, Jump Freighters, and technically the Orca since it’s classed as a capital industrial ship on the market. Rorqual have nothing to do in highsec.

Well, I do enjoy the specialization that the different barges offer. If you don’t want to get shot at, you pick Procurer and Skiff. If you don’t want to move a lot, you pick Retriever or Mackinaw. And if you’re in a fleet with a lot of support, that’s when you can safely take out Covetor and Hulk.

It’s a mechanic that’s technically already implemented… Some Upwell’s service modules and rigs aren’t fully effective in highsec or lowsec due to Empire regulations. Even the Athanor and Tatara mining drill cannot be operated if the Refinery is anchored in a system with a security level above 0.5.

Concerning the rework of mining… Well, I can’t really say anything about that, I enjoy mining in its current state.
For the Orca, it’s already good as it is : the hold isn’t filled too quickly unless you have too many barges, and that’s where you know you can either get down to the real business by going to nullsec and take Rorqual support, or exchange one of your barges for another Orca.


(Naari Naarian) #68

They can compress ore, and that is a vital function that would significantly help high sec operations. These ships should not be limited from high sec, but their extreme mining rates should be.

Imo, remove mining from rorq and orca’s and find a passive way to generate isk for them (like making isk each time they compress ore for players you could create a system whre the player can deposit and compress where the rorq can set an “isk cost to compress”).

Are you a high sec only player?

Im of the opinion that high sec mining, and a few other activities need higher income rates, and better protection from suicide gankers, for these reasons i advocate the merger of all of them.

While that s true if you follow the process of mine > refine, most people do not follow that process, and mine > sell, thus the situation is ignored. In order for this situation to be valid, people would have to be required to sell minerals, and not ore on the market.

Some make this claim, but its not healthy for the game. In the sense of lack of playing it, which results on impact of social interaction. Its also unhealthy for the sense of multiboxing.

It needs to be fixed, many of us non-ccp developers have commented publically against ccp about this. this is a situation where the players opinion on a topic should be ignored.


(rj skeet) #69

Thank you, also the fitting of the orca, porp, and all the exhumer fitting needs to be retweeked. The Mack is far to squishy for buffer with no practical room for active tanking and it’s ore hold while good is still to small. While the skiff excels at what it does I feel that it’s to far off one side of the spectrum and to balance it out the hulk needs to be able to fit half of the ehp of its smaller brother. Also there should be a module for expanding the ore hold of mining barges or at least a rig, it wouldn’t even out the barges but it would give more flexibility to all the barges overall.


(Karak Terrel) #70

Yeah and that’s the actual issue with the ship. It may have slightly lesser yield than a untanked barge, but it capable of AFK mining for an extremely long time.

CCP always underestimates AFK mining. One clearly has to factor in effort into this balance calculations or they are completely flawed.


(Sasha Viderzei) #71

I agree with this man : Orca mining in highsec isn’t something that should be taken lightly. An Orca basically have the tank of a battleship on steroids, bonus to mining drones and the sole input one need to do is keep an ear out for the asteroid depletion alert, the full cargo hold alert or the ganker sometimes.

And that’s how you have fleets of those things in 1.0 systems mining Veldspar all day and crashing the prices for lulz.


(rj skeet) #72

Its only made worse with moon belts, if you can sit near a rock with 100km3 you can walk away for hours and not care…


(Aone Clyde) #73

Well I am going to be rather unsympathetic here - the investment it takes to get to reaching the ability to fly and outfit an orca is huge in time and isk.

Flying smaller mining vessels runs a higher risk of being ganked by suicide gankers and players who simply like to ruin another players day.

There are plenty of asteroid fields to mine and if you can’t be bothered to move to another system then that is your fault.

If a player wishes to use the Orca to sit and mine a belt, then how is that any different to someone one jet canning [with exception of the cans being vulnerable] or using several alts to mine with or an NPC fleet mining the belt.

The minimal return on HI Sec mining takes time to build up.

Some players prefer to solo mine or simply supply an independent vessel to new players away from pvp/pve corps.

To reduce the risk of being ganked by players and other obnoxious elements in the game - one has to be equipped to deal with it.

Further where better to trial test a new Orca? In low Sec or Null Sec where it would be a main target for pvpers? Really? because it seems to me that is what you want? either a weaker command mining ship to make it easier to gank or for industrial command ships not to be used in Hi Sec?

Turn this around - how about all combat ships to be made weaker - shields/armour reduced by 33%, capacitors reduced and less slots. After all we can’t have a battleship cruising in Hi Sec with its shields etc as they are -now? Remove all drone capability from races other than Gallante - remove the choice of weapons? why not? Because it would be stupid… and what you are complaining about is about that much more on that level.

If you have Orca’s mining a belt, go to another one. If they are doing Veldspar mining - then mine a different ore. If the price of an ore drops then welcome to the world of capitalism - price your opponent out of the market.

Don’t be naive and say a ship is to good - because then you will open pandora’s box of all ships going under the microscope.

The Orca is fine as it is - though I think it could do with one extra low slot.

So it has 187’500m3 Ore capacity at lvl 5 skill
So it has 40’000m3 Fleet Bay at lvl 5
So it has a huge maintenance bay - which can’t be used for anything but ship maintenance.
So it has 250’000 EHP but that comes at a cost.
So it has a large drone bay - it still can only have 5 drones out
So it can offer mining command capability which don’t affect mining drones.
A single Orca costs between 900 million to 1 billion isk average with out fittings or training books - also time

Just think your problem is that you are not thinking outside the box. If this were a combat ship you wouldn’t be complaining so much.

Orca does need to be changed in my opinion. What needs to be changed are peoples outlook and attitudes.

As to afk mining there are risks to that as well - just because the risks are minimized doesn’t mean they are not there.

I think you all are pvpers complaining that there are no easy targets to suicide gank or dump on. A mining player would see an Orca as a opportunity to fleet up or simply move to another belt.

I just think players should never have more than one character - no alts, no other accounts to work from.


(Aone Clyde) #74

Orca does need to be changed in my opinion. What needs to be changed are peoples outlook and attitudes.

Apologies - should read

Orca doesn’t need to be changed in my opinion. What needs to be changed are peoples outlook and attitudes.