Another suggestion i’ll put out there for battleship balance, since the topic on weapon/outfit options being more of the culprit: having low-end long range large weapons like the ‘dual heavy beam laser’ or whatever have the same tracking speed as the high-end mediums, but balanced around high RoF for reaching large gun dps, but significantly increased capacitor cost. This gives large guns an alternative to the Rapid Heavy Missile launchers, while having them eat up a great deal of capacitor (large arty version would have restricted ammo capacity/reload to compensate).
I do agree with you that the new buffer mods should be looked at. Something like changing them to XL instead of named capital mods, and having their role bonus be reduced fitting (50-75% costs sounds reasonable) sounds good to me. I remember being overjoyed initially at being able to fit a capital shield extender on an apoc, in o.smium then being disappointed that it was barred from actual use in-game.
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ALSO post edited after reading feedback
The first and bigest issue with battleships is that they don’t all follow a unified style some are for active tank some are better fit for buffer,some are better as snipers,some are better as brawlers and can’t be made as snipers,some are e-war ships.
In my opinion their bonuses and slot layout should reflect a long range style of play with good tank and poor mobility.
The only role bonus I can think of would be %increase to shield extender and armor plate bonus and then changing the bonuses for each ship individually as far as weapons.
WIthout meaning to sound like a negative nancy, a 25% increase in primary buffer will not make any meaningful change to battleships.
250%, maybe. 300%, better.
I can certainly understand your reservation after the overwhelming response to the original idea was “this is too much”. But in the case of buffer, we’ve got a lot more leeway.
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It’s not to primary buffer; it works the same as a t2 buffer rig, so it’s multiplicative of the ship’s HP AFTER fitted modules.
The part that affects the hull HP can just be done by increasing the base HP by however much is appropriate. Role bonuses tend to affect things that are not basic stats (since you can just adjust basic stats).
So sure, +25% to the base shield/armour could work. Then +X% to shield extender/armor plate HP to make buffer fits better.
But really, role bonuses would be interesting if they fit the role that the ship is supposed to partake in. Something like:
-
Brawler: reduce MWD capacitor capacity debuff by 50%; 25% reduction in MWD cycle time and cap need
(Get where you need to be fast, without gimping your cap so much. Turn off or pulse MWD for agility) -
Skirmisher: +100% gain from sensor boosters targeting bonus; -50% mass gain from modules (including AB and MWD) and rigs
(Target fast, sensor boosters are boring modules, so freeing slots for something more fun is good. Fit and run what you need without gimping agility so much) -
Sniper: +100% gain from sensor boosters range bonus, MJD cooldown time reduced by 50%
(Target far, sensor boosters are boring modules, so freeing slots for something more fun is good. Jump around more often)
With something like this, all battleship gain some mobility, mostly tied to piloting, and also something that supports their role and works with their size (they are bigger, so plates don’t slow them down as much, etc.)
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Something “simple” like a % bonus to Armor plates and shield extenders a la super/titans would probably be a nice start since we fit the same buffer module from cruisers all the way to BS right now…
They need balance pass
Then CCP need to figure out how to make em better than they are now will that be dps buff hp buff or mobility buff or something completely else i don’t know first two would massively impact pve that isn’t designed to match changes and is static af.
Ammo bay,cap booster bay,charges bay,ability to dock a frigate would go long way to make them specific.
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I’ve already mentioned this on several threads in.
(Rebalancing the lowest battleship guns to effectively be rapid launcher equivlant for shooting smaller ships. Including the small guns on cruisers like quad beams.
But I don’t think they should have more capacitor use. Just less damage but good ROF, tracking, and lower range.
To the opposite spectrum of a tachyon or 1400mm having good range and damage but poor tracking and lower ROF.
I’d like to see variety in them tho. Example the dual heavy beam would be the anti cruiser option.
The dual heavy pulses would be the anti frigate option with increased tracking over the beam. But less raw damage range.
That said I’d like to see a pulse version of the tachyons too. It’s odd that the “heavy” Bs guns don’t exist of the short range option and instead you only have polarized versions.
You have 5 projectiles but 3 auto cannons and only 2 arts, energy turrets have three beam turrets and only two pulses. There’s a 6th turret missing from each. But hybrid has all 6 iirc.
3 rails and 3 blasters. It’s odd.
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so maybe 2 bonuses for the combat battleships, and a different one for the attack battleships?
Can we have Shield recharge bonus on one of the Caldari BS. Please.
Shield recharge bonus prob never happening then again there’s plenty of nice things we can’t have like for example a ship with smartbomb bonus
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Don’t worry about baking per-level bonuses into hulls, and then adding more things. The problems with BS are that they’re slow. They’re good in some ways, but their downsides are so easily exploited that it’s often better to use other classes.
Here’s my thoughts.
Role Bonus for battleships:
200% bonus to the effectiveness of Sensor Boosters. [EDIT] Was 400%, but I didn’t account for scripts.
100% bonus to the effectiveness of Tracking Computers and Missile Guidance Computers.
100% bonus to the effictiveness of Capacitor Warfare Resistance Bonus of Large Capacitor Batteries.
These bonuses only have an effect when those modules are fitted, and used.
A Tempest has a base scan resolution of 100mm. With a bonused T2 SeBo, it’ll get to 250mm. It’s still lower than a Stabber (320mm), but not by a lot. 400% sounds like a lot, but it doesn’t amount to that much.
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I think battleships should have a base scan res increase to begin with, they’re lower or on pair with some dreads/carriers, which is ridiculous.
See below:
Dreadnoughts:
Phoenix: 87mm
Naglfar: 106mm
Moros: 93mm
Revelation: 100mm
Carriers
Nidhoggur: 93mm
Chimera: 75mm
Archon: 87mm
Thanatos: 81mm
Amarr
Abaddon: 106mm
Apocolypse: 118mm
Armageddon: 137mm
Napoc: 150mm
Navy Geddon: 137mm
Caldari
Raven: 106mm
Rokh: 93mm
Scorpion: 137mm
Navy Scorpion: 93mm
Navy Raven: 131mm
Gallente
Domi: 112mm
Hyperion: 137mm
Mega: 118mm
N. Domi: 112mm
N. Mega: 118mm
Minmatar
Maelstrom: 112mm
Tempest: 125mm
typhoon: 143mm
typhoon fleet: 143mm
tempest fleet: 125mm
The only Battleship allowed to be good
Machariel: 156.3mm
Giving all battleships a flat 25 scan res buff would a good start, combined with the role bonus you speak of to take advantage of SEBO and other utility/application mods.
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All interesting idea’s what I could get behind.
A t2 sebo gives 60% res bonus with a script. A 400% bonus to boosters makes that 300% scan res bonus, boosting your base scan res of 100 into 400 without skills…
And thats with one sebo. Add a second and you getting into the areas of destroyers and frigates.
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What do you mean, combat or attack battleships? I thought that was used for BCs. I was thinking of one per ship, like Hyperion as a brawler, Domi skirmisher and Megatron sniper.
Back to the current topic, boosting some modules, or adding some resistances, could be good too.
Combat, attack and dusruption are used in all sizes.
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Ahh, I forgot to factor in scripts! Damn.
Okay, 400% without scripts is indeed too much. I’ll edit my post.
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