Bother training into Carrier?

Hi all,

I’ve always wanted to fly a carrier, but I have some reservations. A couple things that keep me on the fence:

  1. I generally don’t have a lot of time to play. Maybe only a few hours per week dedicated to PvE stuff

  2. Never lived in Null sec and have little knowledge of the inner workings with regards to territory, etc. Only real experience with Null is roaming in fleets

  3. Training time and investment vs. return (given time allowed)

  4. The need for multiple accounts

Let me say that my main recently trained into Marauders (specifically the Kronos), but I haven’t flown one yet. I have very good sub-cap skills all around.

If I train into carrier, it will most likely be on an alt that has decent (but not spectacular) navigation/shield/armor/drone/etc skills. I’m sure it will take at least another 6-12 months to get into a carrier and be competent at it. Then I would need to get into a null corp, etc etc.

So on to the questions:

  1. Is there a huge difference in profit per hour between Marauder clearing and/or blitzing L4 missions vs. carrier ratting? Given that I don’t have hours and hours per day/week to play, would there be a substantial difference?

  2. How many accounts do I actually need to be effective? I’m guessing at least 2, one for the carrier and another for a Force Recon (cynos)?

  3. What is generally considered the best carrier? And the best super carrier?

  4. What is less skill intensive? Shield or armor carrier?

  5. Does anyone have suggestion on carrier skill plans, order of priority, etc. Which skills do I absolutely need at lvl 5 to “not suck”?

Can’t think of anything else right now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

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Buy the ticket. Take the ride.

Before the NSA nerf, I could get around 60-70m in a poorfit hyperspatial rigged thanny
Pretty sure i went with all fsu’s in the highs with a NSA,
shield slots + drone nav and tracking in the mids,
4 dda’s and 3 hyperspatial accelerators
15% warp speed implant
and 3 hyperspatial rigs
almost max fighter damage/drone damage skills + t2 FSU and fighters

if you get caught you basically accept you lost your carrier.

I’d say worth the investment if you’re careful and only rat when there are 0 hostiles in system. Also, i’d join a big nullsec corp that doesn’t bother checking APIs shameless horde plug because most of the other corps require you to actively participate.
TBH since you already have the kronos trained up, you would probably earn more for the few hours that you get to play doing c5/c6 sites.

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I am in same boat as you. Just yesterday got my main able to sit in a carrier, many weeks away from flying it properly, though. Carrier for me is not way to profit (I have to run Abyss to get ISK for skills and carrier itself) but rather to endgame, which is a Hel. I like the ship and plan to undock one, sooner or later.
As you see I have no personal experience with carriers, but a lot of theoretical information.

“Is there a huge difference in profit per hour between Marauder clearing and/or blitzing L4 missions vs. carrier ratting?”
No. Low skills on a ordinary carrier means 35-45 Isk tick and you can do that with proper LP store as well. Except with carrier you will be doing same boring anomalies over and over again and missions (if not blitzed) give you at least some entertainment. Cathedrals, mining bases, bunkers, drone hives, you know… So if ISk is what you want leave carriers alone. Actually, leave alone Marauders as well. Sell some PLEX and you gat more ISK/hour that any PvE will ever gives you. PvE can be fun and if you want to have that fun without interruptions, stay in high sec. In a calm pocket, I mean. With carriers you will have to dock regulary, in the middle of process.

“How many accounts do I actually need to be effective? I’m guessing at least 2, one for the carrier and another for a Force Recon (cynos)?”
Only if you are an adrenaline addicted person, who do not want to dock, when hostiles come into system. Or if you plan to run escalations in other corner of the region. Or use your carrier as a jump freighter (this can be not a real reason if you are in a good team - your corp should be able to run cyno for haulers). I have my own plan how to abuse long range of a carrier to avoid need to dock or to light cyno, but I am not sure it will work.

“What is generally considered the best carrier? And the best super carrier?”
For PvE people tend to use more minmatar (fighter speed bonus) or gallente carriers.

“What is less skill intensive? Shield or armor carrier?”
Does not matter. But if you use armor tank, you lose DPS.

I would really appreciate if someone, who actually does use carriers, correct me in answers.

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I would have answered to OP

  1. “what do you LIKE to do?”, as erg cz also suggested.
    Ratting in carrier in null provides me around 100Mish/h. But it is very boring (as ratting is in general, doing the same anomalies again and again).
    I can accept that people focus on isk/h if they have a goal to reach and need isks for that.
    After one hour of ratting i have to stop, and prefer to do some explo. At least i have some fun.
  2. How many accounts does one need ? it depends where you live and rat with your carrier (null sec block area? etc), if you have to defend your carrier regularly, if you accpet to lose it sometimes or prefer to drop a fax to rep it, if other people can provide you cyno etc.
  3. the best carrier/super carrier? i suppose here it is only for pve. So you can read this very good guide, now a bit outdated but which contains valuable infos : Carrier Ratting Guide
    Supercarrier is a real different thing: much more expensive (30B ish with fit/implants etc), mure more juicy target, you need a keepstar to dock it, and good alliance mates to save you when you get tackled by 50 wormholers guys, so…
  4. the least skill intensive? no idea
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You don’t need a recon for carriers. Just train that Recon alt into a carrier as well and dual-box them.
If you get caught, you’re dead in no-time anyway, even more with the EHP nerf probably that’s coming soon. If you are on your game you should not get caught (i’ve never been anyways since I started carrier-ratting)

I dualbox thannies (hyperspatial) and get about 220-240m/h with two accounts. This is without taking in account 10/10 escalations (100m each) and faction loot. It could be even more if you pre-align to the next site, but I prefer to always be able to insta-warp off when a neutral jumps into system.

The fits i’m using:

My thanny fits

[Thanatos, Simulated Thanatos Fitting]
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Capital I-a Enduring Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Capital Capacitor Booster II
Sentient Drone Navigation Computer
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II
Sentient Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
Large ‘Vehemence’ Shockwave Charge

Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I

Tracking Speed Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x2
Agency ‘Hardshell’ TB3 Dose I x1

Templar I x15

1. Is there a huge difference in profit per hour between Marauder clearing and/or blitzing L4 missions vs. carrier ratting? Given that I don’t have hours and hours per day/week to play, would there be a substantial difference?
No clue tbh, I’ve started living in null about two months in the game and have not returned to HS.
2. How many accounts do I actually need to be effective? I’m guessing at least 2, one for the carrier and another for a Force Recon (cynos)?
Like I said, better invest that training time for a recon into a second carrier. PVE carriers pop in no-time.
3. What is generally considered the best carrier? And the best super carrier?
Thanatos/nidhoggur and Nyx/Hel
4. What is less skill intensive? Shield or armor carrier?
I’d train for Armor, if you join a null-corp their PVP doctrine will most certainly also be armor carriers.
5. Does anyone have suggestion on carrier skill plans, order of priority, etc. Which skills do I absolutely need at lvl 5 to “not suck”?
For PVE skills at lvl4 will do fine for decent ticks

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Even better: join an ESI-gated corp within Horde and join the L5 missions SIG. For much better ISK than anomalies.

True, but the OP said he only gets a few hours every week. Most of the API gated horde corps require you to actively participate in fleets, which the OP might not be able to do. It seems like all he wants to do is carrier rat with his alt, so I’d say going with a corp that has no fleet requirements is probably his best bet

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So from what I’m reading, I could expect anywhere between 35 - 100m isk per hour, depending on skills. That seems rather low, given the time/isk investment to even fly the ship, let alone the perils of getting ganked in null sec. One bad day could counteract days/weeks of profits from ratting.

In fact, I’m pretty sure that blitzing L4 missions in high sec with a fast-warp ship (like Machariel) could approach those isk/hour numbers when you account for LP conversion. I really don’t know how this compares to full clears using a Marauder or something else like a Rattlesnake. Anyone have experience for comparison?

35 is definitely much too low, and 100m is much too high. With bling, you’re looking at 80m tops. Expect 50-70m, from basically no skills to max skills with a full crab fit.
While you could definitely get better isk/hour with burner missions, I think it’s still more profitable to run a carrier in NS. 50-70m/hour doesn’t account for possible escalations which sell for 130m, faction drops, or the salvage which takes under 5 mins to get an additional 60m from 4 completed havens. Maybe if you included all of that, it’s 100m/hour on average but escalations and faction drops are completely random.
However, if you already have a marauder trained I’d stick with l4’s, and possibly look into c5/c6s

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I think the OP might be pretty disappointed if they had to stay docked up in the nullsec citadel during the one hour that they wanted to play. That sort of thing doesn’t happen when you run L4 missions in hisec.

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Are you talking about ticks or isk/h? I have all fighters skills at level 4 and carrier lvl4 and the highest I’ve been able to get by pre-aligning to the next site is 48m per tick, so 144m/h. I don’t know where you get your numbers from, but you are way off :slight_smile:

EDIT: (With T1 FSUs and T1 templars)

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Hmm, good point. If we’re talking 40-70m ticks, then that makes a huge difference in the numbers. 150m per hour probably beats the hell out of what I could do in a Marauder.

Is it safe to say that a Marauder and Carrier could cost about the same for hull/fit?

Try not to think about the isk/hr. If you make a business out of lvl 4 missions, I have heard that you can get into the 100M/hr range, in a battleship.

You need to think about your lifestyle. This idea of moving to null and ratting in a carrier does not sound like a diversified existence to me. Besides . . . CCP will probably nerf carrier ratting as soon as you finish training for one.

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Very likely.

Sorry yeah, I meant ticks lol.

You can make 150 milion per hour in Abyss, no problem. From high sec. What experienced people are trying to say here is that you need to find your place in New Eden and get right tools to do the job.
If your place is high sec, with its uninterrupted relaxed PvE - go maradeurs. If it is a null - go carrirer. You can get ISK in both places, but high sec will never give you ‘sweet home’ feeling you get in soverenity null and null will never let you do PvE when you are in the mood for PvE and PvP when you are in the mood for PvP as combination of high sec / FW low sec does. Choose yourself now and do not hesitate to change it 2 years later. It is a game. Not an ISK-printing job…

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or have an alt for each activity ?

The idea was to have an alt train into the Carrier. Downside to this is that the training time would be significantly longer (even though I already have a few alts with decent/good basic skills). Ideally I’d keep my main as a sub-cap toon that can join PvP fleets (especially NPSI) or PvE whenever I want.

Agreed, but it would give me the option of playing around in null as an alternate activity.

Another question: I know that generally carrier hulls are actually less expensive than Marauders. What tends to be more expensive after fittings?

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1oe9sG3GLlP6CmvwL75o97R_CMffjBoeNwhtkcAZF_vs/mobilebasic